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Thread: If Trion reads this forum (they dont) then I want to address Retreat in the MM tree

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default If Trion reads this forum (they dont) then I want to address Retreat in the MM tree

    Retreat when used correctly and smartly is a great ability, its akin to Declare Anathema from WAR in that you use it to disengage a melee and get back out of melee range. This should be an amazing ability, especially considering the fact that it's 40 points into the MM tree.

    My problems with the ability are as follows:

    1a. It's a 20 meter jump which does not take you out of range of Riftwalk or other Riftblade abilities.
    1b. It puts you 3 meters from Bull Rush range which the warrior has no problems getting into during the time it takes to fire the ability.
    2. You often hit a "glass wall" when you reach the max range of travel.
    3. We are launched facing our opponent and land facing our opponent
    4. You take fall damage when using the ability after hitting the glass wall.


    If this was a free ability or a 10 point ability, I wouldn't be QQing. I would be happy with this being a subpar skill and use it the best I can. Since I spec into this ability for a reason, I think more could be done with it.

    So here are my suggestions:

    Issue 1:
    Increase the range to 30 meters or give the ability a 1 second non-DR stun when the ability fires. We don't need both but we need 1 of these two things. This will make the ability worth the 40 point investment. If we're leaving melee range we shouldn't be immediately forced right back into melee range, especially considering the fact that it's on 45 second CD while Riftwalk can be spec'd into 35 seconds and Bull Rush is on a 15 second CD and can be used in combat with an 11 point investment.

    I initially thought 25 meters would be sufficient however Riftstalkers using Shadow Warp have a 25 meter range. Although the point and click use of Shadow Warp might mean 25 meters is enough.

    A parachamp instantly pops Fleet of Foot and Bull Rush whenever Retreat is used thus completely negating the entire GCD for the MM. A Riftblade simply uses Riftwalk. There is no reason a warrior should be capable of negating a 40 point gap creating ability in the time it takes for the ability to complete. That's just doesn't make sense.

    Issue 2:
    The flight path needs to be curved. Hitting a "glass wall" like that is just bad design. If I'm launching off an uneven surface then the math needs to be done to figure out where I'll land and how I'll get there but sending me backwards then dropping me straight down in the time frame of an entire GCD is unacceptable. If the guys over at Mythic could get this right I'm more than confident the team at Trion can get this right.

    Issue 3:
    The ability launches me into the air and keeps me facing my opponent. Trion does realize that we run slower backwards than we do forwards right? The time it takes most players to turn around and begin running away in the other direction is enough time for someone to gap close on us. It takes skill and practice to master the art of turning your camera midflight to turn your player the instant you land to begin running. It takes less skill to hit your gap closer macro and faceroll.

    What could be done is to turn the player midflight automatically. Its the perfect opportunity for Trion's animators to show off their skills by giving each race a different style of turning.

    This is probably a personal preference for me because whenever I retreat as is I want to create as much space possible so that I can take back how the fight is being paced rather than moving backwards so I can be meleed in a slightly different location.

    Issue 4:
    This is my personal preference, but if I'm using this ability to jump away from someone, say at Codex and I happen to jump off the rocks there, then I shouldn't take damage. Or I should take reduced damage. Anyone can feel free to disagree with me here but a fella can dream can't he?

    Anyway, these are my suggestions. I would really like to see Retreat looked at. I'm happy with the rogue class and I think any buffs to damage are just going to make good rogues into GODS which I look forward to. I just think this really cool ability could use a little bit of love and some better code and design.
    Last edited by USSR; 09-06-2011 at 12:09 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Jabtangs's Avatar
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    I dont know if this is just a feeling I'm having while using it but, I feel like I can't DO ANYTHING while on air. I think I'm well past the GCD but can't attack.
    Last edited by Jabtangs; 09-06-2011 at 12:13 PM.
    US Dayblind Guardian <Ground Zero>

    Me want to be able to kill a warrior 1v1 =/

  3. #3
    Soulwalker Frydtofu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USSR View Post
    Retreat when used correctly and smartly is a great ability, its akin to Declare Anathema from WAR in that you use it to disengage a melee and get back out of melee range. This should be an amazing ability, especially considering the fact that it's 40 points into the MM tree.
    Agreed. I've always thought they needed to either improve retreat or change it to a different defensive ability completely. Its weak for its 40 point cost.

    Giving a temporary immunity during and after flight would be a start, increase the leap to 30m and reduce the cooldown.

    Not sure if they will be able to fix the invisible wall physics easily, since the riftstalker teleports have the same problem.
    Last edited by Frydtofu; 09-06-2011 at 06:18 PM.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    The only problem I have with retreat is the 'glass wall' effect, and the fact that you can be stunned out of retreat. I feel as though you should be immune to CC effects while under the effect of retreat.
    Deckardcaine
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    http://www.aftermath-rift.com

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser
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    I love double retreating and making people go WTF when it happens

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Raynald's Avatar
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    I absolutely hate how I can be stunned or somehow stopped while retreating. Or that a stray pebble will stop my retreat that I am JUMPING OVER. Face palms.
    60Rog/PR64 - Cleared - FT | EE
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  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Yes, retreat is kind of worthless.. I mostly use it in an unintended way by jumping, turning retreating and turning again as to make it not a retreat but rather a forward leap.. It can be used to good effect to run stones or whatever. But the biggest issue is the drop time for me.

    How come when I retreat it takes so long to hit the ground? In the time frame it takes to retreat 20 m most others can run around 5-10m.

    The only reasonable way to get the distance is by repel followed by retreat, but mostly people are immune to repel when its needed anyway.

    You can also stun retreat or blind or root but the issue with the flightpath and flight speed is always a problem.

    Maybe they intend you to kite it out and use it when someone gets inside your 30m safety wall, sadly that is rarely possible.

    Make the leap closer to instant and a further range and it might be actually useful.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    Being stunned during Retreat is a major annoyance as well. WAR handled this by giving Declare Anathema a knockdown effect and by doing so it was a worthwhile skill that was not OP.

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