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Thread: 1.5 - How to make the Bard useful and Loved. Input Welcomed.

  1. #16
    Banned AsphyxZero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taemek View Post
    I wasn't talking about Bards 1 button macro, I never used it.

    Also, again, if this is all you do as a Bard, then you seriously, should not be playing one.
    Slightly trolling. ;O

    Generally my rotation is something like

    5 Motifs (before pull) -> Cadence x1 -> Power Chord -> Coda of Cowardice -> Cadence x1 -> Power Chord -> Coda of Distress
    After that I do literally whatever I feel like doing while keeping my motifs and codas up. I also have 15 in MM, so sometimes I like building 5 combo points and using rapid fire shot/hasted shot.

  2. #17
    Banned AsphyxZero's Avatar
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    Also.

    RIFF VIRTUOSO HIT CODA OF RESTORATION AS MANY TIMES AS YOU CAN IN 15 SECONDS OH GOD

  3. #18
    Prophet of Telara
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    I hate the lute and the horn animation. And I hate the sounds.

    But they should allow movement while channeling cadence. Also increase range.

    I wish they had made a bard like Vanguard had. Everyone loved having bards around and in some cases you had to have them. They were fun to play.

    I hate playing bard in Rift. Almost embarrassed to play bard anymore.

  4. #19
    Plane Touched
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    Some well thought out ideas by the OP. Trion, hire this guy.

    I think we can all agree anyway to make the Bard more fun to play is a plus!
    Last edited by kdps; 09-08-2011 at 06:38 AM.
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  5. #20
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taemek View Post
    I disagree.

    Bards are very challenging, keep you entertained and you can always tell the difference between a good and bad bard. This is where skill shines with a class like this and not a one button macro spamming spec that my 3 year old son could play.
    I assume you're not talking about a bard in a raid situation? Or even in any PVE situation?


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  6. #21
    Rift Master
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    One, this is a suggestion so it's in the wrong forum. Two, I think this is a bad idea... I like how bards are at the moment, Just leave them be. For people who don't remember about their motifs, addons in 1.5 will assist you with 'remembering'

    But yes, my vote goes to leave bards as they are.

  7. #22
    RIFT Guide Writer Sebb's Avatar
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    I love my guild's bard, and I support this idea.
    Last edited by Sebb; 09-08-2011 at 06:59 AM.
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  8. #23
    Soulwalker
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    in every mmo i loved playing bard so i choose this char again for rift.

    currently the gameplay is more or less uninspring yet there is a signifikant difference in a rogue having to go bard and a bard player.

    my suggestions for a more active playsyle would be as follows

    give bards 3 melodies (A B C ) with little dmg component and one closing theme (CT) zero dmg

    let them make songs with those

    e.g. A A CT gives a 20 sec minor AP Buff
    ACBA CT gives a 20 sec Group shield
    etc
    2 sequence songs could be played fast with little effect while 5 sequence songs should give a great effect
    while a nonsense song ( e.g. non existant combo ) should net in zero result.

    this way the bard has to play well, know all of his songs and still be valuable and able to adapt to different needs.

  9. #24
    Rift Master Leiloni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by impra View Post
    in every mmo i loved playing bard so i choose this char again for rift.

    currently the gameplay is more or less uninspring yet there is a signifikant difference in a rogue having to go bard and a bard player.

    my suggestions for a more active playsyle would be as follows

    give bards 3 melodies (A B C ) with little dmg component and one closing theme (CT) zero dmg

    let them make songs with those

    e.g. A A CT gives a 20 sec minor AP Buff
    ACBA CT gives a 20 sec Group shield
    etc
    2 sequence songs could be played fast with little effect while 5 sequence songs should give a great effect
    while a nonsense song ( e.g. non existant combo ) should net in zero result.

    this way the bard has to play well, know all of his songs and still be valuable and able to adapt to different needs.
    I like the direction of this and the OP's ideas. Bard's need to make more of a difference in a group but they also need to be a more active and less spammy class to play. Good ideas.

  10. #25
    Rift Chaser Mellik's Avatar
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    My humble suggestions for improving Bards:

    1. Increase range of Cadence, Power Chord and Codas to 30m or allow them to be effected by Talented Composer
    2. Increase base damage of Cadence by 40%, change instrument to Drum and allow us to move.
    3. Combine Coda of Distress and Cowardice into one Coda with 6% increase for all damage types
    4. Change Motif of Encouragement into a mini Verse of Joy (i.e. 10 Mana, 1 Energy, 1 Power, 1 Charge / second).
    5. Change base time for Motifs to 30 seconds.
    6. Change Bardic Inspiration to 6/12/18/24/30 seconds for a max up time of 60 Seconds on Motifs.
    7. Add new Coda to replace CoD with Purge ability to remove curses and other negative effects.
    8. Change Street Smart to increase effectiveness of the Motifs of Bravery, Tenacity & Focus by 10/20/30%
    9. Increase the healing of Verse of Vitality by 100%
    10. Allow Coda of Wrath, Fury & Restoration to scale with +100% AP.

  11. #26
    Soulwalker
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    Default What I want from Bard

    While raiding last night we were talking about B-Rez order. Then I (the Bard) started wishing I could B-rez too. Our rez is crap and think to make it worth anything make it usable in combat. So when our 5 healers try to rez the same person at once i can save the day. Other than that i have no complaints about playing bard. Sure i spam cadence and motifs when needed. Seperate the group before pulls for casters and melee. Then Joy every 2 mins. It is kind of boring but when you do die and our first to get rez you know the raid acctually needs you.

  12. #27
    Plane Touched Conundrum's Avatar
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    Two things

    1) Remove that stupid critter Motif, put in something useful.
    2) Increase range of 20m Bard abilities to 30m.

    These two things alone would be a major improvement to the class.

  13. #28
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    I played a bard through the entire beta and rolled a bard again a couple of months ago when our guild had a warrior saturation and a rogue shortage. I really enjoyed the bard in beta, but my enjoyment with it post-launch is certainly far lessened.

    In PvE, the bard feels like it lacks 'things to do'.

    As mentioned, Motifs, VoJ, sometimes a Coda, sometimes switching anthems. I've always thought that a direct heal, even a lower power one, or a cleanse of some kind (insta, multi-target, as Coda or not) might offer a little bit more to do. Aside from giving them a dps boost there really isn't a whole lot else I can see 'added'.

    There are a lot of fluff/dead/redundant buffs and talents, too. Motif of Regen is mostly there to generate procs. Coda of Distress/Cowardice piss off Archons.

    There's also the issue with the class being completely worthless in 5-man groups because it doesn't provide enough healing or dps gain from buffs to justify the loss of a slot (especially over another off-healer/utility build, like Inquisicar).

    In PvP, the bard feels like it lacks 'useful things to do'.

    Aside from Motifs and AoC, and a cooldown dump by dropping a Virtuoso healing bomb, the bard brings one big tool: a mez. The problem is that they never seem to stick, especially in a pug warfront, because everybody's dropping worthless AoE or tabbing targets. The only way to get a reliable CC application is to push in like a badass and hit someone nestled at the back, or use another tree (the two CC abilities I find myself using most are from other trees).

    As a support role, bard durability is also a bit of an issue, simply because of the need to overextend like a badass. Given the tight leash on Cadence and CoR you're often leaving yourself in a vulnerable position, and barring a near-equal commitment to a tree like Riftstalker to give you some blinks and Guardian Phase, you're damn squishy. I've tried other defensive-talent laden builds like picking up MM and/or Inf, and you're still pretty fragile, due to how you need to position.

    Bards also lack the ability to be gamechangers here, unlike a good dps or a good cleric, unless they can land clutch CC that doesn't get broken. Cadence healing is absolutely pathetic now that everyone is rolling in valor (and there's a lot of other damage reduction going around), and CoR isn't really enough of an "oh crap" button to save a perilous situation (Virtuoso can be, mind you). Pugging on a bard is often like sticking my [inappropriate] in a blender, because I sit there watching people make bad decisions and am unable to really carry a team (and yes, I have had more than my fair share of lolhealingnumbarzleaderboards even with a triple bubble proc engine, so don't point to that).

    I had the most fun on my bard back when I felt like using the debuffs (% damage taken, AP/SP), Cadence and MoR didn't heal for crap (and hit more targets), and Riftstalker offered higher durability/mitigation/incoming healing lower in the tree instead of becoming a bit more top-heavy. Obviously screwing around with Riftstalker isn't a good plan, but with where the game is at I can't see a problem with reworking the debuffs and looking at Cadence/MoR ticks.
    Last edited by Kyera; 09-08-2011 at 08:03 AM.
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  14. #29
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellik View Post
    My humble suggestions for improving Bards:

    1. Increase range of Cadence, Power Chord and Codas to 30m or allow them to be effected by Talented Composer
    2. Increase base damage of Cadence by 40%, change instrument to Drum and allow us to move.
    3. Combine Coda of Distress and Cowardice into one Coda with 6% increase for all damage types
    4. Change Motif of Encouragement into a mini Verse of Joy (i.e. 10 Mana, 1 Energy, 1 Power, 1 Charge / second).
    5. Change base time for Motifs to 30 seconds.
    6. Change Bardic Inspiration to 6/12/18/24/30 seconds for a max up time of 60 Seconds on Motifs.
    7. Add new Coda to replace CoD with Purge ability to remove curses and other negative effects.
    8. Change Street Smart to increase effectiveness of the Motifs of Bravery, Tenacity & Focus by 10/20/30%
    9. Increase the healing of Verse of Vitality by 100%
    10. Allow Coda of Wrath, Fury & Restoration to scale with +100% AP.
    11. Make Power Chord do additional damage each second for 5 seconds.

    Good changes that should be implemented asap and make the bard more fun to play.

  15. #30
    Rift Master Leiloni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    I played a bard through the entire beta and rolled a bard again a couple of months ago when our guild had a warrior saturation and a rogue shortage. I really enjoyed the bard in beta, but my enjoyment with it post-launch is certainly far lessened.

    In PvE, the bard feels like it lacks 'things to do'.

    As mentioned, Motifs, VoJ, sometimes a Coda, sometimes switching anthems. I've always thought that a direct heal, even a lower power one, or a cleanse of some kind (insta, multi-target, as Coda or not) might offer a little bit more to do. Aside from giving them a dps boost there really isn't a whole lot else I can see 'added'.

    There are a lot of fluff/dead/redundant buffs and talents, too. Motif of Regen is mostly there to generate procs. Coda of Distress/Cowardice piss off Archons.

    There's also the issue with the class being completely worthless in 5-man groups because it doesn't provide enough healing or dps gain from buffs to justify the loss of a slot (especially over another off-healer/utility build, like Inquisicar).

    In PvP, the bard feels like it lacks 'useful things to do'.

    Aside from Motifs and AoC, and a cooldown dump by dropping a Virtuoso healing bomb, the bard brings one big tool: a mez. The problem is that they never seem to stick, especially in a pug warfront, because everybody's dropping worthless AoE or tabbing targets. The only way to get a reliable CC application is to push in like a badass and hit someone nestled at the back, or use another tree (the two CC abilities I find myself using most are from other trees).

    As a support role, bard durability is also a bit of an issue, simply because of the need to overextend like a badass. Given the tight leash on Cadence and CoR you're often leaving yourself in a vulnerable position, and barring a near-equal commitment to a tree like Riftstalker to give you some blinks and Guardian Phase, you're damn squishy. I've tried other defensive-talent laden builds like picking up MM and/or Inf, and you're still pretty fragile, due to how you need to position.

    Bards also lack the ability to be gamechangers here, unlike a good dps or a good cleric, unless they can land clutch CC that doesn't get broken. Cadence healing is absolutely pathetic now that everyone is rolling in valor (and there's a lot of other damage reduction going around), and CoR isn't really enough of an "oh crap" button to save a perilous situation (Virtuoso can be, mind you). Pugging on a bard is often like sticking my [inappropriate] in a blender, because I sit there watching people make bad decisions and am unable to really carry a team (and yes, I have had more than my fair share of lolhealingnumbarzleaderboards even with a triple bubble proc engine, so don't point to that).

    I had the most fun on my bard back when I felt like using the debuffs (% damage taken, AP/SP), Cadence and MoR didn't heal for crap (and hit more targets), and Riftstalker offered higher durability/mitigation/incoming healing lower in the tree instead of becoming a bit more top-heavy. Obviously screwing around with Riftstalker isn't a good plan, but with where the game is at I can't see a problem with reworking the debuffs and looking at Cadence/MoR ticks.

    Well said and I think this post sums up my issues with the bard and what I think needs to be changed most.

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