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Thread: [pvp] What am I doing wrong?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Unhappy [pvp] What am I doing wrong?

    I'm rank 3, a few k away from rank 4.

    I run a 44 MM spec for eradicate and some nice burst. I also have a nightblade utility spec for fell blades. And I bard. I never feel useful, and I never feel like I have the dps to kill anyone.

    This is all quite QQ I know, but I'm honestly mystified.

    Sure I can hit for 1900 on a deadeye shot crit, but that's a 5 point finisher critical hit. Tonight I got hit by a mage (i'm sure well geared) for 1900, TWICE, back to back. One was a fireball, don't know what the other was. I died. From almost full health. He then 3 shot the guy standing next to me (another rogue). So in 5 GCD he took out two rogues from full health. He had more health than me. In 5 gcd I could have had him down about 25%... 10 minutes later another mage fulminated me for 3300.

    I'm THRILLED i'm not getting path of the hurricaned for 2k anymore. But if there's warriors in the WF I feel like I spend 30% of my time running out of control of my character feared. Clerics.. I just don't even bother with. They can easily outheal even my cooldown bursts.

    So with the spec's I'm running (which to be fair are 100% set up for group utility and helping my team) I don't feel like I'm having fun. I don't feel competitive. I lose 80%+ of 1v1 fights that happen randomly (which is fine if I'm helping my team). But to be honest I don't feel like I'm helping my team. Eradicate spam or spreading fell blades isn't really very fun. Bard is kind of fun but the healing really stinks and I have zero survivability since I'm standing in one spot...within 20 meters... playing a lute... And I feel like I'm missing whatever the other options are out there.

    I think my complaint boils down to when there's a zerg, I feel useful if bored. When there's not a zerg I feel I might as well just go sit in a corner.


    What am I missing or are we just in a bad pvp spot as a class? Is it 100% gear? At R6+ does it all of a sudden become fun? Should I be spec'd into a different tree?

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Champion
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    Some of it will get better as you gain higher gear but I'm afraid the rest is simply pending the next patch. We just don't offer as much in group environments currently.

  3. #3
    Ascendant sanosuke's Avatar
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    MM is fine and all if your team is stomping the other team but honestly i hate MM and think its pretty useless unless you are part of a premade... our biggest strength in pvp is stealth especially at the lower ranks.. at rank 4 you should be running some sort of sin.. i don't do 51 sin/15inf(honestly think there's much better options) like most do but i run a 32 sin build and can take out most players with 6khp or so or less.. its hard to tell what rank people are sometimes with the whole wardrobe thing but i dont think ive lost to many rank 4 or lowers.. now of course higher ranks slaughter me as they should not going to deny that.. i just don't understand people that aren't rank 6+ not running a build with at least 32 sin and picking there targets.. watch peoples HP also you see a cleric/Mage with 8khp+ don't even bother you will just be wasting your time..
    Last edited by sanosuke; 08-19-2011 at 08:23 PM.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser betty's Avatar
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    What you did wrong was not to roll a warrior or a toon with a mana bar

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
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    Rogues ate nerfs from beta 5 or 6 onward, into the first patch or two of live. I can't remember exactly but it's why I originally cancelled my sub cause it just wasn't that fun to get wrecked and do so little damage.

    I came back cause of friends and felt enthusiastic for a while but very little has changed. Rogues get wrecked in PVP. Too little HP, very little mitigation and on top of that we do far too little damage.

    I'm rank 5 with I don't know exactly how much valor cause I'm not in game but I'm easily getting 30%+ mitigation and I just got hit for 3800 damage (2x 1900) in an instant from a cleric. I hardly do 1900 damage deadeye shots after 5 combo points and I certainly don't do them back to back.

    I really like Trion, their devs are awesome and I don't expect them to get everything right. That said, its hard to enjoy the pvp when the other classes around you are drastically stronger. If I don't see at least a minor rework/buff to rogue souls, particularly in relation to pvp then I doubt I'll have the motivation to keep grinding rank and will cancel my sub.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    Well the first mistake is not going the full 51 mm if your going to do the MM then take it all. Then you have to have the right mind set. In PVP rogues are support period. We support from range. We support through heals ( bard) or we support ganks with stealth.

    We are not made to go toe to toe with anyone. We are made to choose our targets and carefully. We are made to fully prepare and think the fight through before we even hit the attack key.

    In our bard and ranged support roles we stand behind the other people and provide support if we become the front line it is fubar already.

    That is the reality of being a rogue in PVP in this game.

    Now just because that is the way it is doesn't mean we have to like it. We can play other classes and we can even just not PVP. And we can continue to demand changes from the dev's.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    1900 is good for r3 marksman imo, i remember dealing 2700-3000 critical hit at r6 with deadeye shot though.

  8. #8
    Shield of Telara
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    Roll a 51Sin/15Inf/0Ranger

    It will bring the fun back for you. Stealth characters are fun...
    Snuggles - R40 Rogue : Snugglybear - R36 Mage
    <The Purge> - Seastone Server

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    Rogues are terrible

    Roll something else
    Celay - Rogue class leader of Special Olympics (EU) Whitefall

    World 1st on Murdantix
    World 1st on Matron Zamira
    Europe 1st on Soulrender Zilas

  10. #10
    Shadowlander Apowl's Avatar
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    Sadly I can't even bring myself to log on to my Rogue anymore. I'm only Rank 4 right now, which accounts for why I lose a lot in Warfronts, but I feel like being a Rogue in general is one of the biggest cripples in existence. I PVP'd all throughout WoW and all I enjoy is PVP (In WoW I could at least get to the 2200-2300 arena bracket) but it seems like no matter what every class has an advantage over my Rogue.

    I mean I can kill people, but 1v1 my burst does not compare which is what causes me to lose a lot of my 1v1s. My finishers hit for other classes builders, and Warriors are able to two shot me whilst parrying every move of mine as 3 of my teammates try to peel him off me. Mages are able to kill me in a few spells. Sadly, my 45 Warrior crits as hard as my Rogue crits. How am I supposed to enjoy my Rogue when they're obviously a class designed to gank people when they're not paying attention? I hate my Rogue. Rift needs to do some work on them.

    *EDIT* What's even worse is everyone targets us. When a battle starts, nobody wants to engage a Warrior, a Cleric, or a high health mage. No, they want the defensively-challenged Rogues they can stomp in seconds.
    Last edited by Apowl; 08-20-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    Check out the "nightman" spec on the forums. I started running it and have noticed my fun level going up quite a bit.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
    Guides: 51 Bladedancer, Bloodstalker, Nightblade
    DPS Rogue <Trinity>
    5/8 ID; HK Conqueror

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apowl View Post
    Sadly I can't even bring myself to log on to my Rogue anymore. I'm only Rank 4 right now, which accounts for why I lose a lot in Warfronts, but I feel like being a Rogue in general is one of the biggest cripples in existence. I PVP'd all throughout WoW and all I enjoy is PVP (In WoW I could at least get to the 2200-2300 arena bracket) but it seems like no matter what every class has an advantage over my Rogue.

    I mean I can kill people, but 1v1 my burst does not compare which is what causes me to lose a lot of my 1v1s. My finishers hit for other classes builders, and Warriors are able to two shot me whilst parrying every move of mine as 3 of my teammates try to peel him off me. Mages are able to kill me in a few spells. Sadly, my 45 Warrior crits as hard as my Rogue crits. How am I supposed to enjoy my Rogue when they're obviously a class designed to gank people when they're not paying attention? I hate my Rogue. Rift needs to do some work on them.

    *EDIT* What's even worse is everyone targets us. When a battle starts, nobody wants to engage a Warrior, a Cleric, or a high health mage. No, they want the defensively-challenged Rogues they can stomp in seconds.
    Why do you think we rogues have a pink bar?

  13. #13
    Shadowlander Apowl's Avatar
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    The way it feels is that in order for me to get a killing a blow I need to perfectly execute my strategy - be it kiting perfectly, timing my cooldowns and interrupts just right, or dispelling that key move in the nick of time - while every other class can just press one macro and roll in the numbers. I mean it's nice to be the class that isn't faceroll and actually requires skill to succeed, but the skill-cap is so high when it comes to trying to kill Riftblades and Dominators that fill the warfronts and have everything in their arsenal to destroy me in seconds while I work my *** off to try and bring them down. It's very demoralizing.

  14. #14
    Telaran Duplicity's Avatar
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    My rogue is P5, and I don't have too much trouble killing people in a 1v1. I play usually variations of assassin and nightblade. Stealth to me is invaluable, since we have the survivability of a tissue. It's all about picking your targets. Eye them up.. wait for the right time.. and if you think you can take them, go for it.

    Although I do roast a lot of people, I can't help but feel like I am disadvantaged. For me to beat a formidable foe, I have to blow a good majority of my cooldowns and will probably still end up with low health.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    You definitely have to choose your targets correctly, otherwise you're done.
    We aren't warriors, we can't rush into a crowd and come out untouched.

    Try to be a hero, see what happens.

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