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Thread: LFG-DPS, Warrior prefered

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralithi View Post
    i just don't understand all these posts about how badly warriors are out dps'n rogues. my guild is currently in HK and the rogues and warriors compete for top dps every single fight. we're pretty even. as rogue i've been parsing 1450-1550 on murdantix, and warriors and other rogues are right there with me. just be patient, get some gear, and learn your spec in and out
    I bet that the tanks for your guild are also warriors, no other tank builds are competitive enough to warrant not having a warrior tank any of the HK bosses. So in your eyes it is ok for a warrior to be top dps but also top tanking. Might as well just have one rogue to bard and the rest can get lost.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyme View Post
    I bet that the tanks for your guild are also warriors, no other tank builds are competitive enough to warrant not having a warrior tank any of the HK bosses. So in your eyes it is ok for a warrior to be top dps but also top tanking. Might as well just have one rogue to bard and the rest can get lost.
    Right, Rogues are shafted at the moment with tanking; hopefully something changes about that so we regain some versatility.

    I don't understand the crying when Warriors are competitive with us on single target DPS. They aren't leaps and bounds ahead of us, they are either a little bit ahead or a little bit behind. If they are leaps and bounds ahead then that is a sign of gear differences or you're not executing something properly. We don't get an "I win" button for rolling Rogue sadly.

  3. #18
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    I used to buy into all this until I noticed something. The dps warrior out dpsing me was using one of the optimal dps builds. The minute I swapped to an optimal rogue dps build it was a crap shoot. Heck my guilds number 1 dpser is a rogue.

    When it comes to tanking, yeah a warrior or cleric can be better on AE encounters but an RS is arguably better on ST tanking, especially when non-physical damage is involved.

    The issue is NOT that any calling is better than any other. Even when you look at the parses posted it's more about individual souls, or specific encounters, not an inherent global failing in a calling.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    I used to buy into all this until I noticed something. The dps warrior out dpsing me was using one of the optimal dps builds. The minute I swapped to an optimal rogue dps build it was a crap shoot. Heck my guilds number 1 dpser is a rogue.

    When it comes to tanking, yeah a warrior or cleric can be better on AE encounters but an RS is arguably better on ST tanking, especially when non-physical damage is involved.

    The issue is NOT that any calling is better than any other. Even when you look at the parses posted it's more about individual souls, or specific encounters, not an inherent global failing in a calling.
    I'm not going to argue about DPS, but about tanking I'll just say this; Warriors are the only choice for tanking. No matter what the ecounter is, if you ahve a warrior and you use either of the other tanks, you are making it harder for your raid.
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

  5. #20
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    Are you guys joking? Watch most of the new HK video's you see atleast one rogue tank. Not sure what kind of gear/spec you guys are rocking but rogues are more often then not top dps in single dps target bosses, even in HK. Yes warriors are taking some of our gear/weapons, but they will regret it when trion fix's str and even tho they are slow they will fix it. I myself like sabdancer or the melee ranger specs so i more often then not am top 3 dps on any boss fight. Stop whining and start researching, there is even a good assassin/bd spec that could be competitive if you took the time to get the rotations down. It just gets annoying seeing all you folks put rogues down, and your rogues.

  6. #21
    Plane Touched Fareline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morikk View Post
    Are you guys joking? Watch most of the new HK video's you see atleast one rogue tank. Not sure what kind of gear/spec you guys are rocking but rogues are more often then not top dps in single dps target bosses, even in HK. Yes warriors are taking some of our gear/weapons, but they will regret it when trion fix's str and even tho they are slow they will fix it. I myself like sabdancer or the melee ranger specs so i more often then not am top 3 dps on any boss fight. Stop whining and start researching, there is even a good assassin/bd spec that could be competitive if you took the time to get the rotations down. It just gets annoying seeing all you folks put rogues down, and your rogues.
    you must have bad dps warriors

    its no contest that they are topping single dps charts right now; we just have to live with that for the time being
    FatCat

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by morikk View Post
    Are you guys joking? Watch most of the new HK video's you see atleast one rogue tank.
    Ever look at how much more damage a Rogue takes?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fareline View Post
    you must have bad dps warriors

    its no contest that they are topping single dps charts right now; we just have to live with that for the time being
    Listen to yourself if somebody else out does their warriors then their warriors must suck. I'm now 3rd hightst dps in my guild... First is rogue second is warrior, the warrior beats me ATM my up to 100 dps BUT he is geared way higher geared than me. I'm pulling about 1500 dps top rogue clipped 2k yesterday constantly. If you don't like the state of rogues than reroll.
    Malumvomica <The Fabled> Rogue DPS
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    Sadly at present the only reason you would CHOSE a rogue is for bard.

    If you want a tank -> warrior
    If you want DPS -> warrior
    If you want heals -> war.... er Cleric.
    Mages are the preferred healers in almost all circumstances

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralithi View Post
    i just don't understand all these posts about how badly warriors are out dps'n rogues. my guild is currently in HK and the rogues and warriors compete for top dps every single fight. we're pretty even. as rogue i've been parsing 1450-1550 on murdantix, and warriors and other rogues are right there with me. just be patient, get some gear, and learn your spec in and out
    The problem is that warriors are easier to DPS with, so when people are still learning warriors are just better. Thus as the thread starter said, people are looking for warriors over other callings. My personal preference would be warrior, followed by rogue followed by cleric followed by mage. If I dont know what the person can do, that is the order of most likely to have the highest DPS. Warriors are just easier to DPS with.

    How many of your rogues that are matching the wariror DPS are using Deadly Dance to keep up?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitto View Post
    Right, Rogues are shafted at the moment with tanking; hopefully something changes about that so we regain some versatility.

    I don't understand the crying when Warriors are competitive with us on single target DPS. They aren't leaps and bounds ahead of us, they are either a little bit ahead or a little bit behind. If they are leaps and bounds ahead then that is a sign of gear differences or you're not executing something properly. We don't get an "I win" button for rolling Rogue sadly.
    Really curious what you consider "competitive". Not saying Rogues aren't competitive really, just curious what your Warriors and Rogues are pulling. I've seen Warrior Plutonis parses over 2400, Murdantix parses over 2300, and Siccaron parses over 3100. What are the highest Rogue parses for these fights(post Spotters/Whetstones change).
    Last edited by Poochymama; 08-20-2011 at 07:16 AM.

  12. #27
    RIFT Guide Writer Gyle's Avatar
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    This thread is still going? Warriors out DPS rogues on single target in a raid setting with comparable gear right now, but not by much. As i understand the term LFG however, this pertains to 5 man content. In 5 man content there is no excuse for a rogue to be out DPS'd by a warrior with the exception of boss fights, and even then on most there is still no excuse. The reality is that too many whinny *** rogues just dont "like" using any of the top rogue DPS specs. Cry me a river.

    My guild is in HK and the top 4 or 5 dps spots change with every fight and are all within 100 dps of each other, with rogues on top as frequently as warriors are. I have not been out DPS'd by a warrior in 5 man content since... well ever. I could put on all my T1 gear, wield a butter knife and still out DPS a warrior in AoE, and on a fair number of boss fights in T2's. Not to mention that in 5 mans with a rogue tank warriors are worthless anyway since they can't keep agro off of themselves, unless they have a DPS rogue incriminating. Warriors DPS also does not scale as well with gear as rogue DPS does.

    Do you really have to be hands down better than somebody every single time just to feel adequate?

    Rogues need a bit of a buff to make some other builds viable, this is true, but warriors have pretty much 2 high DPS builds that are competitive with rogues top melee range DPS build, and rogue FAR exceed them with regard to ranged DPS. Though i did parse a warrior in my guild over 950 ranged dps with only bard/self buffs, so they actually could be somewhat competitive in this regard if they HAD to be. Stop whining about warriors please, they are not the problem. Rogue's need work, not warriors.
    Hastati (50 warrior), Tsar (50 cleric), Tsaritsa (50 Mage)
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  13. #28
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    Rogues need a bit of a buff to make some other builds viable, this is true, but warriors have pretty much 2 high DPS builds that are competitive with rogues top melee range DPS build, and rogue FAR exceed them with regard to ranged DPS. Though i did parse a warrior in my guild over 950 ranged dps with only bard/self buffs, so they actually could be somewhat competitive in this regard if they HAD to be. Stop whining about warriors please, they are not the problem. Rogue's need work, not warriors.
    Pretty much this. I was "close but not quite" dps with Sozu but when the rogues in my guild all went sabo dancer we had one mage is a sheer panic because he went from justing for number 1 on the parse to a "simple" top 5. He actually called out during a 5 minute afk to respec he was so pissed.

    The problem is in order to be in that position I don't think you should HAVE to be running a melee spec with Deadly Dance. When to maximize dps you HAVE to spec a specific soul I think there is an issue.

    I really really really hope they use the addition of AA's as a way to address this issue. EQ2, with a couple exceptions, was good at using the AA trees to address imbalances in the core of the various classes. This would also be a good opportunity to give the RS tank some utility. ATM the biggest issue I see when tanking I not my surviveability or ST aggro management, its the fact the warrior can bring more than simply those two core tank duties.
    Last edited by Galibier; 08-20-2011 at 08:21 AM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyle View Post
    This thread is still going? Warriors out DPS rogues on single target in a raid setting with comparable gear right now, but not by much. As i understand the term LFG however, this pertains to 5 man content. In 5 man content there is no excuse for a rogue to be out DPS'd by a warrior with the exception of boss fights, and even then on most there is still no excuse. The reality is that too many whinny *** rogues just dont "like" using any of the top rogue DPS specs. Cry me a river.

    My guild is in HK and the top 4 or 5 dps spots change with every fight and are all within 100 dps of each other, with rogues on top as frequently as warriors are. I have not been out DPS'd by a warrior in 5 man content since... well ever. I could put on all my T1 gear, wield a butter knife and still out DPS a warrior in AoE, and on a fair number of boss fights in T2's. Not to mention that in 5 mans with a rogue tank warriors are worthless anyway since they can't keep agro off of themselves, unless they have a DPS rogue incriminating. Warriors DPS also does not scale as well with gear as rogue DPS does.

    Do you really have to be hands down better than somebody every single time just to feel adequate?

    Rogues need a bit of a buff to make some other builds viable, this is true, but warriors have pretty much 2 high DPS builds that are competitive with rogues top melee range DPS build, and rogue FAR exceed them with regard to ranged DPS. Though i did parse a warrior in my guild over 950 ranged dps with only bard/self buffs, so they actually could be somewhat competitive in this regard if they HAD to be. Stop whining about warriors please, they are not the problem. Rogue's need work, not warriors.
    A lot of the DPS order for 5 mans depends on the group. For instance, in one of our premades, I can guarantee you that you would not come close to my Warrior in DPS on any AoE encounter in 5 mans with the Sabodancer spec because things simply die to fast. If the fight were 5-6 seconds longer then maybe Sab > Warrior, but otherwise my Warrior will beat Sab's every time by a margin of 1-2k dps. On single target fights Sab's really don't stand a chance against a competent Warrior since they power starve so much easier with fervor.

    That being said, much of what you said about Sab > Warrior for 5 mans in your average group is true. However, in well made group, Warriors will handily beat Sab's on both AoE and single target fights because the fights don't really last long enough for Sab's to get going.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathmaster35 View Post
    The problem is that warriors are easier to DPS with, so when people are still learning warriors are just better. Thus as the thread starter said, people are looking for warriors over other callings. My personal preference would be warrior, followed by rogue followed by cleric followed by mage. If I dont know what the person can do, that is the order of most likely to have the highest DPS. Warriors are just easier to DPS with.

    How many of your rogues that are matching the wariror DPS are using Deadly Dance to keep up?
    I'm the only rogue in guild that uses the sabdancer spec. The other top 2 rogues use hoku spec

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