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Thread: What is the official word on where Sab damage comes from?

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    Champion P-51's Avatar
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    Default What is the official word on where Sab damage comes from?

    Since a Sab uses detonate the damage is somewhat based on an Attack Power bonus.
    First off has anyone ever figured out what that % bonus is per charge when detonated?

    Second Is any damage based AT ALL on the main hand, both hands or the ranged weapon?. Or are just the ability stats factored in.

    Third. Why would you bother with AP items ever? Essences gear etc.. Wouldn't straight Dex be the only thing to boost?

    Lastly with the only true "Other" damage coming from auto attacks, unless using BD or Sin skills for melee range., because you are basically using charges and bombs, Is there any need to ever worry about Hit?
    I am still not sure if hit factors on a Bombs chance.

  2. #2
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    i know you want hit, especially if using the sabdancer build (use the sabdancer build or sabodancer or w/e its called these days)
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    Rift Chaser Qwicked's Avatar
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    I stacked PCRIT up to 1000
    As much Dex as I could
    As much hit as I could without sacrificing the other two.
    Never cared about AP.


    Last GSB run I had parses around 1200 on the first boss.

    Eyemangler + Blue Dagger
    Rune Bow (I dunno its purple)

    You want Dex > AP because dex gives ap on a 2:1 ratio (there is a cap where the returns diminish and you want to start focusing on AP instead, but for the most part just stack Pcrit > Dex > AP in that order)

    You want your PCRIT to be about 1000 self buffed, so that the raid buffs put you up to 45% (which is the softcap) Basically try and get 42% crit chance self buffed, the raid buffs should get you up to 45.



    The Sabodancer spec I run has macros that use "startattack" after the charge. This causes you to auto attack whenever you are out of energy so to a point yes, you still need hit. As far as the charges using hit I cannot say... my hit is around 270 which is far above the cap for T1 raids. Not been into HK yet

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    Champion P-51's Avatar
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    But as I said Detonate is the only bonus to damage in the Sab tree.

    Yes Dex is better then AP But lets say why not have Riftstalker for that AP?

    Or is 5 point better spent elsewhere?

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    RIFT Guide Writer Ninjahax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-51 View Post
    But as I said Detonate is the only bonus to damage in the Sab tree.

    Yes Dex is better then AP But lets say why not have Riftstalker for that AP?

    Or is 5 point better spent elsewhere?
    In the ideal Sabdancer spec you have no room for Riftstalker. Sabdancer is optimized for maximum dps. It may not be that AP is bad, but that other souls offer higher damage than Riftstalker would. Also, Sabdancer stays in melee range and uses Deadly Strike as one of its finishers as well as Puncture for 2 CP.

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    Rift Chaser Qwicked's Avatar
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    Puncture for 2cp and the bleed. DoT's play heavily into the Sabodancer DPS

    Blade Dancer gives you:

    6% Dex Increase (Which of course increases your AP)

    Weapon Barrage for interupts

    And Blade Tempo

    Now, Deadly Strike... Combined with Deadly Dance means that during your rotation when you do 2x Spikes and det that the DoT damage from the spikes should get increased along with the 1st charge on your next 5x shrapnel charges.

    Throw combat eff. on top of all that so that you do not energy starve yourself and I really can't see a reason to swap Bladedancer for Riftstalker just to boost my Det damage a wee bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by P-51 View Post
    Second Is any damage based AT ALL on the main hand, both hands or the ranged weapon?. Or are just the ability stats factored in.

    Third. Why would you bother with AP items ever? Essences gear etc.. Wouldn't straight Dex be the only thing to boost?
    The damage depends on what souls you have and where you are standing. If you have ranger or markman and are at a range, your ranged weapon damage is used. If you are in melee range or do not have ranger or marksman you will use your melee weapons for the damage. I havnt bothered testing it, but from what I have read the damage is based on a calculation using both of your weapons, not just your main hand. I can verify using two whet stones ups your damage more than one whetstone. I am not sure if whetstones still work when doing the ranged Sab though.

    As for AP, it becomes your most important stat as it forms the base damage along with your weapon, thus gets doubled when you crit. When you value an item dex is worth the most as each point of dex is .5ap and 1 crit, and your dex gets boosted in many builds.
    Some people say they ignore AP, but I focus on it. I also almost always outdamage the other rogues in my guild even though I only have t2 DPS gear with raid tank weapons while they have several pieces of raid DPS gear and raid DPS weapons. I only do around 1600 on plutonus.
    Once your crit gets past a certain point, you need AP more than crit. I dont know what that point is though, but it is before the softcap when you factor in raid buffs.

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    1100 Give or take takes you to the crit cap. So once you hit that AP is your choice to stack. So factor in your buffs before the 1100 number and if your there on crit then go AP from there on.

    While I am not at the cap yet I have always gone for a 2 to 1 ratio of crit to AP. So I might have 800 crit for example and 400 AP. I try and keep it close to that but my rogue is my secondary character so I don't always get to bring him out for the raids and such to get the good gear.

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    The soft crit cap is 1147 crit, or 45% crit. Talents do not count towards the caps, however stat bonuses do. In a raid situation you need to account for various buffs and a flask, so you'll end up somewhere around 1015-1020 crit needed to hit the soft raid cap when raid buffed.

    Sabo is more crit-dependent than other specs. Others such as hoko/heavy assassin/heavy nb will prioritize AP over crit due to all the attacks that give a bonus to AP, so crit isn't as important in those specs.
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    Champion ComaEtilico's Avatar
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    ap scale in a different way based on what charge u use... for example spike charge gain a lesser ap contribution than sharpnel charge... (there is a tread from hoko with some of those number try searching for it ;) ) this is not dependant of how many CP u use for detonate (or if u use annihilinatio bomb to detonate your charge)... the ap contribution to detonate is separated and based only on the number of CP u use for the finisher

    as said crit cap is easy to reach ( if u use sabdancer with 24% bonus dex it wil become really easy...) so u will find yourself looking for AP pretty soon once u started collecting raid gear

    for weapon dmg charge use weapon dmg to calculate their final dmg so yes... your weapon is important...

    for hit... if u create a macro for each charge u use like:

    #show Spike Charge
    cast Spike Charge
    startattack (or startranged attack for ranged sabo)

    u will find that auto attack is around 5 or more % of your total dmg (if u have a good weapon) so yes... hit have his value... aslo for sabdancer u have to use melee attack that require hit... while for ranged sabo there are times when u want to use annihilation bomb to spreed spike charge...
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