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Thread: My Sabdancer Issues / Questions

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Question My Sabdancer Issues / Questions

    By now, everyone should be at least familiar with the Sabdancer Spec.

    However, based on my gear and experience, I've not yet hit that uber dps quoted elsewhere (1200-1500dps). I'm in a mixture of late T2 and Early T1 Raid gear (667 AP / 1017 Crit / 308 Hit, no buffs), and having issue breaking 950 DPs with the Sabdancer. My most lagging pieces of equipment are my pair of Nimble Deathbringers I use for melee.

    Given their 31.7 DPS each, am I expecting too much from the spec?

    My particular concern, is that my old melee spec that I keep around for comparison still does more DPS - namely around 1015 across a 5 min dummy parse.

    While I'd love to think that I've been holding some ridiculous gem of a build that beats Sabdancer to myself this whole time, being realistic, I have to assume that I'm doing something wrong here.

    So a few questions -

    1) Does Sabdancer scale better in raid fights than on a dummy parse due to mechanic of the build I'm not familiar with?

    2) Does Sabdancer scale better with raid buffs than most builds?

    3) Are the rotations listed at Riftjunkies outdated or inaccurate? Is the build I'm using for Sabdancer old or inaccurate?

    4) Does Sabdancer *require* some form energy discount or buff to really shine? (Tablet, Fervor, Clover, etc)

    I'll probably have more questions as conversation continues.

    Thanks!

    ~I

    PS, I'll link my current gearset when the Rogue DPS Upgrade Planner comes back online.
    Last edited by IMoriarty; 08-15-2011 at 11:01 AM.
    Elder of Defiant Elders (Alsbeth Defiant)
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Blays's Avatar
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    Of course man, 1500 dps is the raid dps. Bards energy buff will give you extra 150 dps on its own... and with few raid drops 1800-2k is not impossible on fights like plutonus.

    And that rotation still works, some people believe that its worth replacing puncture with backstab due to changes in spotters order buff... i personally didnt bother testing yet.
    Last edited by Blays; 08-15-2011 at 11:10 AM.
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  3. #3
    Champion of Telara
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    Given their 31.7 DPS each, am I expecting too much from the spec?
    Unbuffed on a dummy? I did like 1150 or 1200 with a 37dps dagger.

    You're fine?

    Raid buffs will almost double Sab DPS.


    My particular concern, is that my old melee spec that I keep around for comparison still does more DPS - namely around 1015 across a 5 min dummy parse.
    If your "old melee spec" is reliant on sustained DoT abilities like the Assassin bleed finisher or the Nightblade Fiery Spikes stack (or both), then they will scale less with raid buffs:

    1. You can maintain those abilities "100%" on the dummy anyways. You simply spam fewer regular attacks to maintain those.

    2. As a result, those abilities will grow less with raid buffs (particularly energy buffs).


    Think of it like this:

    You have "strong" dps abilities (Spike Charge, Puncture, Backstab, Impale, etc). And then you have weak**** dps abilities (Shrap, Savage Strike, Keen Strike).

    A common BD, AS, or NB build can use all of their strong abilities on cooldown on a dummy. They just end up spending less energy on their filler DPS abilities.

    A Sab/BD build can't actually maintain full Spike charges on a dummy because of the way the Shrap set is fixed into the middle. So there's more room for DPS enhancement.


    4) Does Sabdancer *require* some form energy discount or buff to really shine? (Tablet, Fervor, Clover, etc)
    The Sab/BD rotation is inherently energy-inefficient. It uses a ~2 point Detonate, which hogs a lot of energy for little inherent damage.

    Fervor/LE will immediately improve the standard Sab/BD rotation -- with Fervor, you can keep close to 100% uptime on Spike. Sab/BD scales well until you hit this "softcap" of 100% Spike.

    With Fervor + tablet you can maintain this while not losing energy for a Blade Tempo on cooldown.

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara
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    Just remember... all these high DPS numbers are....

    1) with a bard
    2) with every consumable known to man
    3) with raid buffs

    If you go out there with yourself self buffed and no consumables, you're dps will be closer to 1000 than 2000.
    Snuggles - R40 Rogue : Snugglybear - R36 Mage
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  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
    If your "old melee spec" is reliant on sustained DoT abilities like the Assassin bleed finisher or the Nightblade Fiery Spikes stack (or both), then they will scale less with raid buffs:
    It's actually a macro spec with:

    #show Keen Strike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Reprisal
    cast Puncture
    cast Dusk Strike
    cast Quick Strike
    cast Keen Strike
    cast Twilight Force
    cast Fiery Spike

    and Deadly Strike anytime Combo points reach Five, with Blade Tempo and Ebon Fury tossed in when up. A two button facerollspec.

    Since it was so unoptimized, I guess I was expecting the Sabdancer, even sans raid buffs to be at least on par, rather than lagging by 100dps.

    Quote Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
    Think of it like this:
    You have "strong" dps abilities (Spike Charge, Puncture, Backstab, Impale, etc). And then you have weak**** dps abilities (Shrap, Savage Strike, Keen Strike).
    A common BD, AS, or NB build can use all of their strong abilities on cooldown on a dummy. They just end up spending less energy on their filler DPS abilities.
    A Sab/BD build can't actually maintain full Spike charges on a dummy because of the way the Shrap set is fixed into the middle. So there's more room for DPS enhancement.
    The Sab/BD rotation is inherently energy-inefficient. It uses a ~2 point Detonate, which hogs a lot of energy for little inherent damage.
    Fervor/LE will immediately improve the standard Sab/BD rotation -- with Fervor, you can keep close to 100% uptime on Spike. Sab/BD scales well until you hit this "softcap" of 100% Spike.
    With Fervor + tablet you can maintain this while not losing energy for a Blade Tempo on cooldown.
    Aight, I can see that. I guess there's nothing for it but to try it out in a raid scenario and parse it there.

    Thanks to all the above for their input. I'll check back after Plutonus on Tuesday and see how it goes.

    ~I
    Elder of Defiant Elders (Alsbeth Defiant)
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  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Looks like the Rogue DPS Planner is back up: My Current Gearset

    ~I
    Elder of Defiant Elders (Alsbeth Defiant)
    Defiant Elders

  7. #7
    Telaran Swirl's Avatar
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    From a glance it doesn't seem like you are doing anything wrong. I parse ~1100 on the dummy with similar gear to you except I have a 33.6 dps MH and Words of War which are two quite significant pieces; I can see those contributing greatly to the difference.

    I am a bit surprised that you parse higher with 27 BD even on the dummy. I haven't run 27 BD in a very long time but I remember way back when I did on the dummy I parsed a little higher with sabdancer. I guess all there is to do really is to do a comparison in a raid situation and go from there.
    Swirl @ Shatterbone <Fracture> http://fracture-rift.guildlaunch.com/
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