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Thread: what lvl can a rogue tank effectively?

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    Rift Chaser Jaserion's Avatar
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    Default what lvl can a rogue tank effectively?

    at lvl25, dsm seemed tough. healer(s) called me squishy. help!

    thanks.

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    Rift Disciple Zenora's Avatar
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    If your hoping it gets better it doesn't . We are squishy. Though I tank from about mid 30s to 50 with out much complaint.
    Last edited by Zenora; 08-15-2011 at 08:09 AM.

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    Rift Disciple Asel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaserion View Post
    at lvl25, dsm seemed tough. healer(s) called me squishy. help!

    thanks.
    DSM has probably the hardest hitting mobs in any of the 5man dungeons. The 3 mob pulls are brutal on any tank. I suggest using some CC for those pulls. I know....I said a dirty word, but honestly, I was in a group that took 2 Clerics both in heal spec to get us through those pulls. They hit rediculously hard.

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    Ascendant JimboTCB's Avatar
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    I wouldn't want to try it before 18 when you get Guardian Phase. 25 will get you enough "extra" points to get up to False Blade in BD (assuming you always put as many points as posisble into RS) and that's about as non-squishy as you're really going to get.

    By its nature, rogue tanking can be quite trouser-browning in the first few moments of a pull until you can get all your finishers up, and your healer really needs to be on their toes if they're used to warrior tanks with their huge piles of passive mitigation.

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    Rift Disciple Wight's Avatar
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    I never had any problem tanking before the last dungeons... If you have difficulties now, it will become a nightmare in high end.

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    Rift Chaser Jaserion's Avatar
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    thanks all.

    i've been tanking as a warrior all this time. i'm partially T3 geared so it's fair to say that i know all the dungeons and mechanics.

    i decided to try rogue tanking (after seeing my guild mate) because it looks fun!! holding aggro is not a problem. the problem is that healers cant keep me up even spamming builders so i can use finishers!!

    in terms of gears (at lower lvls) there arent much i can chose/buy/loot.

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    Rift Disciple Wight's Avatar
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    That's probably where your real problems are, my friend. As a warrior is incomparably easier to tank. As a rogue, if you miss one finisher or cooldown, difficulties start to rise. It's painful.

    At the same time, though, I think the rogue rotation is more fun. The warrior thing gets kind of boring and repetitive.

    Just to repeat myself and some others... It will just get worse. The last dungeons, experts and raids will be MUCH worse. I don't have any problems with aggro (just some AoE pulls if some DPS start messing up) but I'm definitely much "squishier" than a warrior, to the point that I need to move slowly and pull trash very intelligently, while a warrior can sometimes mess everything up and pull the whole dungeon and still survive.

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    Rift Chaser Jaserion's Avatar
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    i'm a pretty cautious puller. even just 1 pat, i wait for it to pass. i dont like unnecessary burden on my healer. anyway, with that said, i guess i need get more gears before trying again on my rogue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaserion View Post
    thanks all.

    i've been tanking as a warrior all this time. i'm partially T3 geared so it's fair to say that i know all the dungeons and mechanics.

    i decided to try rogue tanking (after seeing my guild mate) because it looks fun!! holding aggro is not a problem. the problem is that healers cant keep me up even spamming builders so i can use finishers!!

    in terms of gears (at lower lvls) there arent much i can chose/buy/loot.
    Found your problem.

    Your first finisher should be Rift Guard if you're getting smashed. 1 point Rift Guard is just as good as a 5 point Rift Guard. I almost never use 5point Rift Guards, even while raiding, it just isn't worth it. Even with only 1-2 points they never fall off due to running out of damage and more points don't give you a longer duration.

    Second, use Guarded Steel. More points just gives you a longer duration so 2-3 points is fine for your first one.

    Third is False Blade. Same deal as Guarded Steel. More points is simply a longer duration. Get the finishers up fast.
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    Found your problem.

    Your first finisher should be Rift Guard if you're getting smashed. 1 point Rift Guard is just as good as a 5 point Rift Guard. I almost never use 5point Rift Guards, even while raiding, it just isn't worth it. Even with only 1-2 points they never fall off due to running out of damage and more points don't give you a longer duration.

    Second, use Guarded Steel. More points just gives you a longer duration so 2-3 points is fine for your first one.

    Third is False Blade. Same deal as Guarded Steel. More points is simply a longer duration. Get the finishers up fast.
    1 point of Rift Gaurd is only 10% of your max HP isnt it? Should it be better to do a 5p? It also depends on when you use it. After a Plane Swift you should get the Rift Barrier on you. Which makes it easier to build up a 3p Guarded Stele and then a 5p RG <_<

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara Fiskerton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonho View Post
    1 point of Rift Gaurd is only 10% of your max HP isnt it? Should it be better to do a 5p? It also depends on when you use it. After a Plane Swift you should get the Rift Barrier on you. Which makes it easier to build up a 3p Guarded Stele and then a 5p RG <_<
    Any point Rift Guard is a 35% mitigation shield for 30 seconds. With enough hp (and you should have this much hp if you're raiding already), that 10% of your max hp will never be reached. A 5 point Rift Guard is only really used when all your other finishers are up and you wanna use the 5 combo points you just built.

    Also, Plane Shifting gives you only a 15% mitigation. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY less than a Rift Guard. DONT RELY ON RIFT BARRIER! IT IS USELESS! After a Splinter -> Blitz or even just a Blitz you should be Rift Guarding immediately.

    As for the original question, as soon as you get Guardian Phase you can tank. i tanked dungeons from lvl 18 to 50, and am still tanking
    Last edited by Fiskerton; 08-15-2011 at 07:34 PM.
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  12. #12
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaserion View Post
    thanks all.

    i've been tanking as a warrior all this time. i'm partially T3 geared so it's fair to say that i know all the dungeons and mechanics.

    i decided to try rogue tanking (after seeing my guild mate) because it looks fun!! holding aggro is not a problem. the problem is that healers cant keep me up even spamming builders so i can use finishers!!

    in terms of gears (at lower lvls) there arent much i can chose/buy/loot.
    If you are sure your healers are competent I would check your spec. There might be key talents you need to get at that level that are going to make the difference. I dont ever remember having any big problems as a rogue tank leveling.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    Few notes on the DSM mobs.

    Have someone in the group purge the poison from the sin mobs. This weakens them a lot. Use your own cleanse to remove the dots the miners hit you with or have your cleric cleanse you. Remind your healers that cleanse > heals. Have someone purge the buff from the really tall skeletons as well so they do not hit that hard they have the champ buff that adds to overall damage.

    With the poison mobs and even the miners you can watch even well geared warrior and cleric tanks take a beating. Those two things are what does it. Purges and cleanse make it easy for any tank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonho View Post
    1 point of Rift Gaurd is only 10% of your max HP isnt it? Should it be better to do a 5p? It also depends on when you use it. After a Plane Swift you should get the Rift Barrier on you. Which makes it easier to build up a 3p Guarded Stele and then a 5p RG <_<
    Max absorb amount = ((10*C)+25+(5*(P-16)))
    c= combo points used
    p=points in riftstalker soul

    So for a 51pt Riftstalker, 1 combo point will allow Rift Guard to absorb up to 210% of your max health. 5points is only 250%.

    I have close to 14,000 hitpoints. 210% of that is 29,400. I think thats enough to keep me going
    If you had 9,000 hitpoints, about what (I think) I had when I started tanking T2s, a 1 point Rift Guard will absorb 18,900 damage.
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

    I've found that Warriors are like Feminists. They want equality when it suits them, but the rest of the time they want to be treated special.

  15. #15
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    If you're not using it already, here's the spec you should be using at level 25:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MpVN.xItou0zoz.x0d

    Next 3 points should go into Improved Guardian Phase and Improved Guarded Steel. These will give you 5% more endurance, 10% more armor from items, and 40% more threat, which will help a lot with being squishy.

    Finishers you should make sure you keep up all the time:

    Rift Guard - as stated before, a huge part of our mitigation
    Guarded Steel - 30% more armor
    False Blade - 5% dodge

    On the pull, get Rift Guard up and a 5pt Guarded steel as soon as possible. Rift Guard lasts 30 seconds regardless of how many combo points you use, so you can get it up immediately and work on the other two. Remember also that with Ranger you can quick shot and 1cp Rift Guard immediately, before the mobs even get to you, or Shadow Blitz/Guarded Steel/Rift Disturbance/Phantom Blow/RG to get both buffs in the first 5 seconds. After that you can work on getting the longer-duration versions up.

    Hope this helps.

    edit: Forgot to add, at level 25 you can also ghetto-cc a mob if you need to by using the boar pet. above 30 this won't really work, but you're in kind of a sweet spot for that.
    Last edited by Caelan; 08-15-2011 at 07:59 PM.
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