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Thread: Hunting Healers and Warriors - that's what I do

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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Default Hunting Healers and Warriors - that's what I do

    Maybe 2 months after Headstart I came to this forum and asked what was a good PvE leveling build for a fresh Rogue. I have unending gratitude for the Ranger/MM/Assassin build that was suggested, it has also worked very well for most of my warfront episodes (I do have some other builds if I queue in only to see that some stealthiness is required to keep down total team embarrassment).

    This is not a melee build, although it does provide enough of it to do some damage to help out someone who might assist you as you die. It is also not a Healer or Warrior killer, although it does well on killing other classes.

    For Healers, it is the Raptor that is a nightmare. It keeps them in combat so they can not drink, and it reduces their healing effectiveness. It can heal itself in addition to the heals I can put on it. Basically, I put it on aggressive (if practical) and tell it to target a Healer and then forget about it until it dies, except to toss it a heal now and then. The only purpose is to hinder how well a Healer can do their job. Every time I myself am fighting any player the pet is always and also being told to use one of their abilities that is perhaps off of cd - because they do the most damage, and the instant pet ability I let it do via auto attack. Notice in the build that I have instant pet call (top of Ranger tree) so the pet is a near constant annoyance.

    Warriors, I must keep them at my maximum range or they will gap close and pound me to a pulp fairly quickly. Which means I use Fleeting Instincts to move around more quickly than can the Warrior, giving up a bit of AP for maneuverability. If I need AP I can quickly change to Predatory Instincts instead. Again, my intent is not to kill a Warrior but to make them easier for my team mates to kill. I use Expose Weakness, Barbed Shot, and Splinter Shot very liberally on Warriors. This slows them, bleeds them, and causes more damage if they move around. Inevitably, they will come after me (which is good if I can use my speed buff to outrun them). I also keep Shadow Fire and Marksman Pedestal up to greatly intensify my damage abilities by up to 45% by that alone.

    So this build I've found to be a very good "damage support" Rogue build, in that it does do good damage but it's real intent is to mess with and diminish (not kill) Healers and Warriors. Beware if you use this build, as Mage Healers and Warriors will get you marked and you will be a blitz target. Of late, I've seen other Rogue builds specifically going after me and not popping out of stealth until I'm getting in range of a Healer or Warrior (they usually kill me lol). It's a fun build!
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  2. #2
    Champion TiberiusMonkey's Avatar
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    I'll be frank, that's really not a very good ranged PVP build. Also some of the things you say make no sense, Fleeting Instincts for example is only useable out of combat.

    You'd be far better going much deeper into Marksman and moving away from Ranger.

    If it works for you, then good on you, but honestly that's really not a very good PVP build.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    I'll be honest here. Whenever I see a raptor in a warfront, I look at the owners name, I plop them on focus, and I keep them in mind when I'm fighting players who are actually a threat as a free bloodthirsty proc when I need it.

    PS: Fleeting insticts doesn't work in combat.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taptap View Post
    Maybe 2 months after Headstart I came to this forum and asked what was a good PvE leveling build for a fresh Rogue. I have unending gratitude for the Ranger/MM/Assassin build that was suggested, it has also worked very well for most of my warfront episodes (I do have some other builds if I queue in only to see that some stealthiness is required to keep down total team embarrassment).

    This is not a melee build, although it does provide enough of it to do some damage to help out someone who might assist you as you die. It is also not a Healer or Warrior killer, although it does well on killing other classes.

    For Healers, it is the Raptor that is a nightmare. It keeps them in combat so they can not drink, and it reduces their healing effectiveness. It can heal itself in addition to the heals I can put on it. Basically, I put it on aggressive (if practical) and tell it to target a Healer and then forget about it until it dies, except to toss it a heal now and then. The only purpose is to hinder how well a Healer can do their job. Every time I myself am fighting any player the pet is always and also being told to use one of their abilities that is perhaps off of cd - because they do the most damage, and the instant pet ability I let it do via auto attack. Notice in the build that I have instant pet call (top of Ranger tree) so the pet is a near constant annoyance.

    Warriors, I must keep them at my maximum range or they will gap close and pound me to a pulp fairly quickly. Which means I use Fleeting Instincts to move around more quickly than can the Warrior, giving up a bit of AP for maneuverability. If I need AP I can quickly change to Predatory Instincts instead. Again, my intent is not to kill a Warrior but to make them easier for my team mates to kill. I use Expose Weakness, Barbed Shot, and Splinter Shot very liberally on Warriors. This slows them, bleeds them, and causes more damage if they move around. Inevitably, they will come after me (which is good if I can use my speed buff to outrun them). I also keep Shadow Fire and Marksman Pedestal up to greatly intensify my damage abilities by up to 45% by that alone.

    So this build I've found to be a very good "damage support" Rogue build, in that it does do good damage but it's real intent is to mess with and diminish (not kill) Healers and Warriors. Beware if you use this build, as Mage Healers and Warriors will get you marked and you will be a blitz target. Of late, I've seen other Rogue builds specifically going after me and not popping out of stealth until I'm getting in range of a Healer or Warrior (they usually kill me lol). It's a fun build!
    If you have pet attack in your macro, your pet will switch to whatever you are currently targeting, so your macro actually takes your pet off of healers. Besides that, healers can largely cast through any amount of damage and a pet is not even an annoyance really.

    Fleeting Instincts does not work in combat, so your using that doesn't give you any advantage and wasting a GCD in combat to change instincts is a bad idea anyway.

    Expose Weakness, Barbed Shot and Splinter Shot do not slow anyone. Not sure why you would think otherwise.

    People probably do not mark you in warfronts. Marks are generally reserved for the blue bars. It is more likely that your use of a raptor lets the enemy know that you are deep ranger and thus an easy target, so classes like Assassins and Paragons just smash you for easy kills.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    No ranger in PvP, please.

    Why Improved Quickshot AND Single Minded Focus? No IMS, No Breakfree, No burst, points spent in Serrated blades (which only works on melee attacks), no heal debuff, no burst, awfull damage.

    That doesn't work versus healers and Warriors, I'm afraid. No ims = no kite, no kite = dead since you got no defensive abilities other than escape artist. You also won't be killing any decent cleric without a heal debuff, solid burst or a well-timed silence.

    It's so wrong I have a hard time being constructive. Heck you didn't even take the ranger snare or OTD.
    Last edited by Sir Sowl; 08-12-2011 at 11:02 PM.

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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    I concede my statement "Which means I use Fleeting Instincts to move around more quickly than can the Warrior, giving up a bit of AP for maneuverability." is just wrong, because it does work only out of combat (in actuality I only use it if I get stuck being the one to carry a stone to cap, or if I'm trying to catch up to someone when mounting would take too long). I concede nothing else.

    Only thing else I'll say besides L2P a ranged Rogue is that I don't use /petattack. I said I use commands to make a pet use it's most damaging abilities. Those commands, if put in a macro or not, are completely ignored unless you have first told your pet to attack a target. Learn how to play your pets, lol.

    As to the rest of it about damage. BS. Most of the damage I cause and scrolling across my screen is 300+ per 1s tic before crits. A heck of a lot more, before crits, if I use AoE such as Trick Shot. Only less if everything is on cd or I'm not waiting long enough for energy to build up. In fairness, my OP did omit that I have (since R2, I'm fully geared R6 now) the Necrotic Semblance essence (+50AP procs a lot) and the Whispered Silence trinket (+250AP every 2 minutes for 30 seconds), a maximum of +300AP quite a lot of my combat time. My overall damage as shown in wf's is not negligible, thank you very much.

    You guys are just wrong. You think only melee Rogues are of use. You're wrong. True, I can not heal (and I do have Escape Artist so I don't need Break Free). But I protect our Healers (do you?) and they keep me healed in return (or I stop protecting them lol). I'm at range, if playing right I don't need to heal myself but I might drink when out of combat.

    I love Healers and Warriors that target me. While they are trying to get at me my team is burning them and their team down. I hunt them, I said. Didn't say I kill them by myself! There are many roles to play. This is but one of them I play. I do have 3 50's, but I like my Rogue the best. And it does have other roles to use.
    Last edited by Taptap; 08-13-2011 at 11:18 PM.
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    Prophet of Telara Sozu's Avatar
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    Ranger was good in PVP before people started getting such high ranks. Then it became a fight for survival. Ranger builds tend to lack any sort of cooldowns in order to survive longer than their opponent. Also...Pets are complete garbage in PVP. When I see a raptor I look at it as a free Blood Thirsty. If/When im bard I see a pet as free combo points for cadence.

    In todays Rift you are much better off going with Marksman for extremely high burst damage so you can burst people down before they even have a chance to use cooldowns. Any good, well equipped Nightblade, Marksman, Assassin, Bladedancer (pretty much everything BUT Ranger) will destroy a Ranger 1 on 1.

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    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taptap View Post
    I concede my statement "Which means I use Fleeting Instincts to move around more quickly than can the Warrior, giving up a bit of AP for maneuverability." is just wrong, because it does work only out of combat (in actuality I only use it if I get stuck being the one to carry a stone to cap, or if I'm trying to catch up to someone when mounting would take too long). I concede nothing else.

    Only thing else I'll say besides L2P a ranged Rogue is that I don't use /petattack. I said I use commands to make a pet use it's most damaging abilities. Those commands, if put in a macro or not, are completely ignored unless you have first told your pet to attack a target. Learn how to play your pets, lol.

    As to the rest of it about damage. BS. Most of the damage I cause and scrolling across my screen is 300+ per 1s tic before crits. A heck of a lot more, before crits, if I use AoE such as Trick Shot. Only less if everything is on cd or I'm not waiting long enough for energy to build up. In fairness, my OP did omit that I have (since R2, I'm fully geared R6 now) the Necrotic Semblance essence (+50AP procs a lot) and the Whispered Silence trinket (+250AP every 2 minutes for 30 seconds), a maximum of +300AP quite a lot of my combat time. My overall damage as shown in wf's is not negligible, thank you very much.

    You guys are just wrong. You think only melee Rogues are of use. You're wrong. True, I can not heal (and I do have Escape Artist so I don't need Break Free). But I protect our Healers (do you?) and they keep me healed in return (or I stop protecting them lol). I'm at range, if playing right I don't need to heal myself but I might drink when out of combat.

    I love Healers and Warriors that target me. While they are trying to get at me my team is burning them and their team down. I hunt them, I said. Didn't say I kill them by myself! There are many roles to play. This is but one of them I play. I do have 3 50's, but I like my Rogue the best. And it does have other roles to use.
    Your spec sucks and will be destroyed by any decent premade or rank 8 Warrior+Cleric Combo.
    You also rely on your team to do anything and that the enemy has no healers since this spec doesn't have any burst at all.

    Ranger vs Marksman:
    - No eradicate
    - Lower survivabiltiy
    - lower damage
    - way way way lower burst damage

  9. #9
    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Oh, forgot to reiterate. I do not lie. Stop being an expert by just reading tooltips. Expose Weakness does indeed slow the target, it seems to be for about 5 seconds and the affect is on dr. Try it yourself. Works fine for me and has for many months. I use it a lot. And yes I do have another one, the 8s 70% slow should I run into a target and hit it with Malicious Strike.

    Anyway, what's with the Holier Than Thou attitude and calling me or the role bad? BS. Who do you think you're kidding! If it didn't work I'd not still be using it!
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    Prophet of Telara Sozu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    Your spec sucks and will be destroyed by any decent premade or rank 8 Warrior+Cleric Combo.
    You also rely on your team to do anything and that the enemy has no healers since this spec doesn't have any burst at all.

    Ranger vs Marksman:
    - No eradicate
    - Lower survivabiltiy
    - lower damage
    - way way way lower burst damage
    Ranger isnt lower damage. Just lower BURST damage which is what is needed in PVP. It's basically High sustained damage vs high burst damage. I'll always take high burst in PVP situations.

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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    Your spec sucks and will be destroyed by any decent premade or rank 8 Warrior+Cleric Combo.
    You also rely on your team to do anything and that the enemy has no healers since this spec doesn't have any burst at all.

    Ranger vs Marksman:
    - No eradicate
    - Lower survivabiltiy
    - lower damage
    - way way way lower burst damage
    Ok then. Link a better ranged Rogue spec. I'll try it! Thanks!
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  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara Sozu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taptap View Post
    Oh, forgot to reiterate. I do not lie. Stop being an expert by just reading tooltips. Expose Weakness does indeed slow the target, it seems to be for about 5 seconds and the affect is on dr. Try it yourself. Works fine for me and has for many months. I use it a lot. And yes I do have another one, the 8s 70% slow should I run into a target and hit it with Malicious Strike.

    Anyway, what's with the Holier Than Thou attitude and calling me or the role bad? BS. Who do you think you're kidding! If it didn't work I'd not still be using it!
    Expose Weakness snares? That's a first!!!!

    If you are going to post a build be prepared to either be praised or criticized. I dont know what else you expect everyone to say..."WOW THAT BUILD IS AMAZING!!!!"

    Truth of the matter is...If you are going on killing sprees with this spec then I question your opponent skill levels and ranks. They would need to be fresh level 50 cadets that never set foot in a warfront before. The kinda people I let pew pew until I need a Blood Thirsty.

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  13. #13
    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sozu View Post
    Ranger isnt lower damage. Just lower BURST damage which is what is needed in PVP. It's basically High sustained damage vs high burst damage. I'll always take high burst in PVP situations.
    Post me a PvP ranger build that will do more damage then Marksman.
    Note: This is not a dummy, your pet can die to warriors wanting Bloodthirsty proc/aoe/or get CCed and kited to death.

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara Sozu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    Post me a PvP ranger build that will do more damage then Marksman.
    Note: This is not a dummy, your pet can die to warriors wanting Bloodthirsty proc/aoe/or get CCed and kited to death.
    Pretty much any Ranger build will have more sustained damage than Marksman. PvP or PvE doesnt matter...It's more sustained damage. Marksman destroys it in burst though so I half agree with you. But to say MM does more damage is just false. Marksman just kills faster hence the much higher burst...This isnt rocket science lol.

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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sozu View Post
    Ranger isnt lower damage. Just lower BURST damage which is what is needed in PVP. It's basically High sustained damage vs high burst damage. I'll always take high burst in PVP situations.
    Ok, I can see the logic of burst > sustained in PvP. Thanks for the comment and the one you made before it. I'd really like to see the currently recommended MM zam link, I'll give it a try!

    Also, Joker225, I agree with your logic regarding even having a pet in PvP at all. Makes sense from that viewpoint you made.
    Last edited by Taptap; 08-13-2011 at 11:51 PM.
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