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Thread: Rogue PvP! How do you do it?

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    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Default Rogue PvP! How do you do it?

    Ok, I this week is impossible for me.
    I can't do anything in PvP and I'm looking for a way to become a better player.

    This is what I experience on my shard (Battlegroup) and is 100% correct.
    1. Group above 2 people is considered a premade.
    2. Group with less then 2 people is not considered a premade therefore it gets into queue with pugs.
    3. All PuGs suck. Meaning they have useless specs (chlorolock, ranger...) rather then proper pvp specs.
    4. In 99% of the games all of PuG sucks.
    5. Queue time with 2 man or solo queue is around 10seconds.
    6. 3man or more Queue is 5minutes or more based on situtation.
    7. If you consider all pugs suck (aka no heal debuff, no heals, no CC...) you want the best you can get from 2 people. This is warrior and a pocket healing cleric.

    So please tell me how to fight this?

    NOTE: I do not suck and saying I just stupid. I can't do anything solo if I meet 3 p8 Bloodiron PvP rift Exploiters, I can't duo queue since noone wants me. They rather queue with Warrrior+Cleric dueo. I can't 5man queue cause waiting 5min for each pop is ******ed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    This is what I experience on my shard (Battlegroup) and is 100% correct.
    Good to know you aren't going to post things that are 57.8% correct.
    [*]Group above 2 people is considered a premade.[*]Group with less then 2 people is not considered a premade therefore it gets into queue with pugs.
    Fewer people than 2 is... 1. I think you meant 2 or fewer.
    [*]All PuGs suck. Meaning they have useless specs (chlorolock, ranger...) rather then proper pvp specs.
    Perhaps you should contribute to the mage and rogue forums, enlightening us on the "proper" pvp specs. What should a low rank mage run? What should a high rank mage run?

    [*]In 99% of the games all of PuG sucks.
    So in 1% of games, they are running the specs you think are proper?

    [*]Queue time with 2 man or solo queue is around 10seconds.
    Wow, what battlegroup are you in? My solo queue times are usually 1 to 10 minutes, depending on time of day and day of the week.

    [*]3man or more Queue is 5minutes or more based on situtation.
    Five minutes between WFs doesn't seem that long at all. Five minutes goes by very quickly.

    [*]If you consider all pugs suck (aka no heal debuff, no heals, no CC...) you want the best you can get from 2 people. This is warrior and a pocket healing cleric.
    Wait a second. You changed your definition of suck. First it wasn't the proper builds, now it isn't using support abilities. You want heals, but you don't want mages to run chloro? I know you don't get Cleric style healing off them, but when all the clerics are playing melee dps, at least someone can throw a heal or two if there's a chloro around.

    So please tell me how to fight this?
    Find a premade? After all, you get five minute queue times. Sounds like it would be worth it to wait five minutes and be confident you have teammates you feel don't suck.

    I can't do anything solo if I meet 3 p8 Bloodiron PvP rift Exploiters
    Hey, most of us can't do much with four friends against three p8 players if we're still in r2/3 gear. Has nothing to do with the quality of the palyers. It's the game design.

    I can't duo queue since noone wants me. They rather queue with Warrrior+Cleric dueo.
    Are you sure it's just your class? Maybe the "everyone but me sucks" attitude is contributing as well.

    I can't 5man queue cause waiting 5min for each pop is ******ed.
    Really? 5 whole minutes?

    Wait a second... are you being ironic? I suddenly have the strange feeling I've been trolled.
    The Roguepocalypse is upon us!

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    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymeric View Post
    Good to know you aren't going to post things that are 57.8% correct.
    Fewer people than 2 is... 1. I think you meant 2 or fewer.
    Perhaps you should contribute to the mage and rogue forums, enlightening us on the "proper" pvp specs. What should a low rank mage run? What should a high rank mage run?
    So in 1% of games, they are running the specs you think are proper?
    Wow, what battlegroup are you in? My solo queue times are usually 1 to 10 minutes, depending on time of day and day of the week.
    Five minutes between WFs doesn't seem that long at all. Five minutes goes by very quickly.
    Wait a second. You changed your definition of suck. First it wasn't the proper builds, now it isn't using support abilities. You want heals, but you don't want mages to run chloro? I know you don't get Cleric style healing off them, but when all the clerics are playing melee dps, at least someone can throw a heal or two if there's a chloro around.
    Find a premade? After all, you get five minute queue times. Sounds like it would be worth it to wait five minutes and be confident you have teammates you feel don't suck.
    Hey, most of us can't do much with four friends against three p8 players if we're still in r2/3 gear. Has nothing to do with the quality of the palyers. It's the game design.
    Are you sure it's just your class? Maybe the "everyone but me sucks" attitude is contributing as well.
    Really? 5 whole minutes?
    Wait a second... are you being ironic? I suddenly have the strange feeling I've been trolled.
    Rift's PvP system is based on gear.
    Rank 3 player will not contribute nearly as much as rank 7 player. That rank 3 player will pretty much be useless unless he has Subdue spec/51 dom spec/cleric healing spec/Bard spec.
    To proper PvP specs.
    In a warfront you want the following:
    Bard, Stonerunner, MM purger, 51 Warlocks for high aoe/st damage, 51 dom for drain, subdue spec warrior, paragon/2h warriors, healing clerics with overload, cabalists...
    What wouold be considered a not "proper" pvp spec is Sin/Nb/Rb//chlorolock/domlock/shaman/druid and so on...
    I play on whitefall-eu-pvp, solo queeu time is 5 sec max. Match lasts 5min. 5man queue times are 5man and sometimes result in 7vs2 fights.
    I already said I can get a 5man premade.
    Noone wants to do it though because our premade is cleric+warrior and they rather solo queue since they have easy win with no queue time.

    Did you even read the post?

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    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    BardxCleric in E.whitefall has given me the highest chances of winning. Having virtuoso coda spam will save everyone with the cleric patching up any single target damage. I tank warriors in the middle of their group while he sits away and does his healing business since people love to target 6k HP rogues wearing R4 set in wardrobe. VoJ + fervor switch also is pretty huge.

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    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    BardxCleric in E.whitefall has given me the highest chances of winning. Having virtuoso coda spam will save everyone with the cleric patching up any single target damage. I tank warriors in the middle of their group while he sits away and does his healing business since people love to target 6k HP rogues wearing R4 set in wardrobe. VoJ + fervor switch also is pretty huge.
    That's all well and good... if you have a proper pug dps.
    I very rarely see a proper pug dps warrior.
    Usually they run some kind of 1vs1 variation.

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    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    That's all well and good... if you have a proper pug dps.
    I very rarely see a proper pug dps warrior.
    Usually they run some kind of 1vs1 variation.
    It's a toss up, but you being any DPS spec is going to be multitudes less effective than me in bard spec. Unless you want to suffer the premade queue or grab 10 people and queue as 2s at the same time, you're either going to have to rely on pug heals, or pug DPS, and pug heals are pretty rare.

    What you need to remember, is that for E.whitefall at least, it is a pure zerg, and you need to maximize your chances of winning fight #1.
    Last edited by Adnoz; 08-12-2011 at 06:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    Ok, I this week is impossible for me.
    I can't do anything in PvP and I'm looking for a way to become a better player.

    This is what I experience on my shard (Battlegroup) and is 100% correct.
    1. Group above 2 people is considered a premade.
    2. Group with less then 2 people is not considered a premade therefore it gets into queue with pugs.
    3. All PuGs suck. Meaning they have useless specs (chlorolock, ranger...) rather then proper pvp specs.
    4. In 99% of the games all of PuG sucks.
    5. Queue time with 2 man or solo queue is around 10seconds.
    6. 3man or more Queue is 5minutes or more based on situtation.
    7. If you consider all pugs suck (aka no heal debuff, no heals, no CC...) you want the best you can get from 2 people. This is warrior and a pocket healing cleric.

    So please tell me how to fight this?

    NOTE: I do not suck and saying I just stupid. I can't do anything solo if I meet 3 p8 Bloodiron PvP rift Exploiters, I can't duo queue since noone wants me. They rather queue with Warrrior+Cleric dueo. I can't 5man queue cause waiting 5min for each pop is ******ed.
    It's time for you to cancel.......clearly you know nothing about PvP in WFs except your unsubstantiated opinions about what souls should be played. Maybe you just suck really bad. I see no difference in win/loss from PuG or Premade queues. It's the luck of the draw, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. If you always lose, well then maybe you should look in the mirror.
    Last edited by Waldoh; 08-12-2011 at 07:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    Ok, I this week is impossible for me.
    I can't do anything in PvP and I'm looking for a way to become a better player.

    This is what I experience on my shard (Battlegroup) and is 100% correct.
    1. Group above 2 people is considered a premade.
    2. Group with less then 2 people is not considered a premade therefore it gets into queue with pugs.
    3. All PuGs suck. Meaning they have useless specs (chlorolock, ranger...) rather then proper pvp specs.
    4. In 99% of the games all of PuG sucks.
    5. Queue time with 2 man or solo queue is around 10seconds.
    6. 3man or more Queue is 5minutes or more based on situtation.
    7. If you consider all pugs suck (aka no heal debuff, no heals, no CC...) you want the best you can get from 2 people. This is warrior and a pocket healing cleric.

    So please tell me how to fight this?

    NOTE: I do not suck and saying I just stupid. I can't do anything solo if I meet 3 p8 Bloodiron PvP rift Exploiters, I can't duo queue since noone wants me. They rather queue with Warrrior+Cleric dueo. I can't 5man queue cause waiting 5min for each pop is ******ed.
    all your base is belong to us

    better you get for buy plat
    Last edited by BlueTongue; 08-12-2011 at 07:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    Ok, I this week is impossible for me.
    I can't do anything in PvP and I'm looking for a way to become a better player.

    This is what I experience on my shard (Battlegroup) and is 100% correct.
    1. Group above 2 people is considered a premade.
    2. Group with less then 2 people is not considered a premade therefore it gets into queue with pugs.
    3. All PuGs suck. Meaning they have useless specs (chlorolock, ranger...) rather then proper pvp specs.
    4. In 99% of the games all of PuG sucks.
    5. Queue time with 2 man or solo queue is around 10seconds.
    6. 3man or more Queue is 5minutes or more based on situtation.
    7. If you consider all pugs suck (aka no heal debuff, no heals, no CC...) you want the best you can get from 2 people. This is warrior and a pocket healing cleric.

    So please tell me how to fight this?

    NOTE: I do not suck and saying I just stupid. I can't do anything solo if I meet 3 p8 Bloodiron PvP rift Exploiters, I can't duo queue since noone wants me. They rather queue with Warrrior+Cleric dueo. I can't 5man queue cause waiting 5min for each pop is ******ed.
    1) Roll a shard running spec so you can be useful in Whitefall and Scion. It is pretty funny when the church is overran with Guardians and I *still* steal shards right out from under their noses and they can do nothing about it. They will devote 3 or 4 people to the church just to look out for me and I still get away. Same thing in Whitefall. Even if there's a guy guarding flag, I can just stun him and take it while he's out. By the time he breaks free, I am out the door. Believe me, shard runners can win games. At Scion, I have single handedly kept my team in the lead even though most of the morons were fighting aimlessly at the south end of the bridge accomplishing nothing. I will be at the bottom of the DPS ladder, but I am at the top of points scored (a thankless task.)

    2) Don't use a Sin spec in WF's. They are worthless everywhere except maybe Codex to ninja flags. In BG and the new Whitefall you will just get AoE'd to death before you even break stealth.

    3) The melee rogues (that I have seen) who put up top damage as are running some combo of riftstalker/NB. I haven't rollled such a spec so I don't know exactly which is best. But there's a rogue on my shard who is almost always top DPS in WF's and he uses a similar spec. He uses no stealth, he just runs around like a warrior in the middle of the fray plane shifting from enemy to enemy.

    4) 51 MM is awesome for Codex. I can mow people down from the rock. Often times I'm top DPS there. Nowadays it's hard to stay up there for long since they always send Sin's and warriors to take me out -- a sign I am doing something right. If they just keep ganking me from the rock, I switch specs, go Sin, and start ninja'ing the vault. ;)

    5) Have a Bard spec for situations where there is no Cleric. You will be thanked by the others in the raid.

    6) Open world ganking in 1v1 situations, Sin is king. In raid vs. raid types of situations, not so much. Roll a ranged spec or go bard heal.

    Rogues aren't warriors, there is no one OP'ed spec that you can just run around in any situation and put up top DPS. You have to adapt to the situation at hand, which kinda makes it the most interesting (and frustrating) class , imo.

    So, basically, if you want to play Sin, people aren't gonna want you in WF's. Shard running and Bard seem to be the areas where rogues can make a real difference.

  10. #10
    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Okay, I think most of you missed my point.
    I will ask differently.

    How to compete against 2x2 combo premades when people don't want you in their premade because you are a rogue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    Okay, I think most of you missed my point.
    I will ask differently.

    How to compete against 2x2 combo premades when people don't want you in their premade because you are a rogue?
    See what I said above. Rogues have their uses depending on the WF. If you're in Whitefall or Scion, tell them you can run shards. Trust me, a RS rogue is much more effective at this task than some random mage. If you're in BG, go Bard. I don't know of any premade that would deny an extra healer. If you're in Dex go with a ranged spec and annihilate from the rock.

    Rogues are useful in all WF's. If you're premade team still doesn't want you, then the problem is not the class. They are either all morons or you just suck.

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    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceinHole View Post
    See what I said above. Rogues have their uses depending on the WF. If you're in Whitefall or Scion, tell them you can run shards. Trust me, a RS rogue is much more effective at this task than some random mage. If you're in BG, go Bard. I don't know of any premade that would deny an extra healer. If you're in Dex go with a ranged spec and annihilate from the rock.

    Rogues are useful in all WF's. If you're premade team still doesn't want you, then the problem is not the class. They are either all morons or you just suck.
    Ok, I will ask again.

    There are 2 different versions of Queue:
    • Solo Queue: 1 player or 2 players give you in Queue with PUGs
    • Premade: 3, 4 or 5 player premade

    Solo Queue has 5-10sec Queue time (whitefall-order).
    Premade Queue has 5min queue time (whitefall-order).
    Usual fight lasts till 15min left on timer.

    Conlussion:
    Doing 2 man premades is superior then doing 3-5 man premades.

    Example:
    You have Cleric, Warrior, Rogue, Rogue.
    Neither cleric nor Warrior wants to group with Rogue for 2 man premade because it's better for both of them if they group together.

    Rogues are left alone.
    You see my point now?
    This is why I have to PUG. No other reason.

    Now we can go back to PUGing...!
    PUGs are full of people with useless pvp specs. So that's why I am asking how do you cope with this?
    Last edited by joker225; 08-12-2011 at 08:20 AM.

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    It's ok because the pugs of both factions have weeners in them, so it balances out.

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    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    It's ok because the pugs of both factions have weeners in them, so it balances out.
    So you've never done a warfront in which your pugs just suck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    Ok, I will ask again.

    There are 2 different versions of Queue:
    • Solo Queue: 1 player or 2 players give you in Queue with PUGs
    • Premade: 3, 4 or 5 player premade

    Solo Queue has 5-10sec Queue time (whitefall-order).
    Premade Queue has 5min queue time (whitefall-order).
    Usual fight lasts till 15min left on timer.

    Conlussion:
    Doing 2 man premades is superior then doing 3-5 man premades.

    Example:
    You have Cleric, Warrior, Rogue, Rogue.
    Neither cleric nor Warrior wants to group with Rogue for 2 man premade because it's better for both of them if they group together.

    Rogues are left alone.
    You see my point now?
    This is why I have to PUG. No other reason.

    Now we can go back to PUGing...!
    PUGs are full of people with useless pvp specs. So that's why I am asking how do you cope with this?
    Your actual question is pretty unclear.

    Are you asking how people cope with solo queueing and playing with pugs? Or are you asking how people cope with not being wanted in a group of 2?

    It really just sound like you are trying to cry about how rogues are underpowered compared to clerics and warriors, but you are doing it in a goofy way.
    Last edited by Dahrken; 08-12-2011 at 08:43 AM.

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