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Thread: Trying to figure out a Decent Raid Spec while Staying Melee

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Trying to figure out a Decent Raid Spec while Staying Melee

    Well I spent the past few weeks basically concentrating on hitting 50; actually love the game, love my Rogue and really liked my Leveling Spec: RS/Sin/BD; ok so when in a lvl 50 Tier 1 the other day the last fight I needed to have some range abililities and didn't. I think they did an amazing job with the soul system and how it works but I hate Range specs. Kinda stuck in my ways for the past 20 years and while I've had to vary somewhat here and there and at time not have the #1 dps for a rogue I was always happy when raiding.

    So now I wanted to get gear and join a raid guild over the next few weeks and started doing alot more research on various forums and the highest dps seems to be with a Sab spec; I've tried playing around with the Souls the past few days; but I love my sin spec it's who I am and what I love to play so how I can I still get pretty decent dps for raiding without having to sacrifice what I love; any great melee specs would really be appreciated; I realize I can use another soul spec if I have to go ranged, but hoping that won't be often. I tried the Sab soul and it just dosen't do it for me; what about NB/Sin/BD; any opinions? I don't need to be #1 at least not till they make Sin viable enough for that to be the case with raiding but pretty decent dps to raid.

    Thanks
    Sassie

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    There's a solid bd-centric spec that's been around for a while. It's fallen behind the sabdancer but it's still viable, and I believe one of our rogues still uses it:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...VRcx0b.VhxzhoM

    Something like this. Use bd abilities, with puncture and dusk strike as 2cp fillers. For top dps you'll want to use fiery spike as well and refresh it after each deadly strike.

    You have two cooldowns in Blade Tempo and Ebon Fury, gap closers, and some hard-hitting abilities that benefit a lot from attack power. It's a fun spec.
    Skiet - Kelari Rogue - Fires of Heaven - Deepwood

    Thanks a lot, Daglar.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    The top DPS , sabodancer, is melee. The 44 sab build is ranged.

    Sadly, sabodancer is about the only real choice for us for top dps... other specs are just behind. Trion has done a decent job, but, failed horribly at versatility... they hella nerf PVE for PVE ala WoW.

    Try sabodancer if you wanna melee, or this guy above me spec ...

  4. #4
    General of Telara Asaomar's Avatar
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    I use a very similar version of the blade/night/sin build linked above, some of the points are spent a bit differently though. here is my version. http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...osM00b.VhxzhoM

    it has been working very well for me so far. 1200 sustained raid dps in melee on anrak in GP.
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  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Thank you all so much gonna try them all out; I love burst damage out of stealth, I love backstabbing; I basically love the bleeds; and the speed of daggers is a major plus for me, lol. I always hate waiting for games to fix rogues to get the best dps for a real sin spec for Raids. At some point I think they will make a kickasz Raid Sin Spec using daggers; but its something that never comes fast or easy lol. I actually like the BD, and the NB too is a good variation. Im really trying hard to break away and be a little different from the Sin that I love but it's just so damn hard when you love every aspect of a Bleeding, Backstabbing Dagger Rogue; lol.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassievixen View Post
    Thank you all so much gonna try them all out; I love burst damage out of stealth, I love backstabbing; I basically love the bleeds; and the speed of daggers is a major plus for me, lol. I always hate waiting for games to fix rogues to get the best dps for a real sin spec for Raids. At some point I think they will make a kickasz Raid Sin Spec using daggers; but its something that never comes fast or easy lol. I actually like the BD, and the NB too is a good variation. Im really trying hard to break away and be a little different from the Sin that I love but it's just so damn hard when you love every aspect of a Bleeding, Backstabbing Dagger Rogue; lol.
    I agree and am in the same situation as you. If there was a bladedancer spec that actually felt like a bladedancer spec, or a NB or assassin spec I would be all over it.

    In all seriousness I hope you're not like me. I don't raid anymore because I like to top the DPS Charts and give it my all. Unfortunately, I HATE sabdancer with a passion (throwing bombs? I want to be MELEE). So now I just PVP with Nightblade, sometimes assassin and sometimes bladedancer, the 3 specs that I picked a Rogue for.

    Good luck. If you don't like sabdancer then I hope you don't like to top the DPS charts :P

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaaji1359 View Post
    I agree and am in the same situation as you. If there was a bladedancer spec that actually felt like a bladedancer spec, or a NB or assassin spec I would be all over it.

    In all seriousness I hope you're not like me. I don't raid anymore because I like to top the DPS Charts and give it my all. Unfortunately, I HATE sabdancer with a passion (throwing bombs? I want to be MELEE). So now I just PVP with Nightblade, sometimes assassin and sometimes bladedancer, the 3 specs that I picked a Rogue for.

    Good luck. If you don't like sabdancer then I hope you don't like to top the DPS charts :P
    Yeah it's been actually bumming me out; I really want to raid and didn't join a guild while leveling because I wanted to make sure I found a decent guild but now this whole Sab spec being the best dps who is gonna want a sin rogue. I don't mind if im not #1 as long as Im happy but I also won't be happy if not following real close behind. I've made the sacrifice before and usually at some point be it years in-game they fix the Dagger Rogues so Im really hoping they do it here too kinda of feel at a crossroads. Messed around a little with the Sab spec and I just can't get into the bomb thing it just dosent feel right, I want to take the Sin spec to the top for the most part, but Im going to try the suggestions above and see how that goes and then decide to go for a raid guild or not, but would love to start raiding again and see the content.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    Well dont get me wrong i understand what you're saying and i understand playing a build you like, but the playstyle isnt THAT different.
    Both sin and sabdancer get most of their dps out of DoTs and both are melee. truth is yeah, you wont really be getting the instant number popping on your screen every time you use a charge as opposed to lets say a backstab but the burst when you detonate just always makes me smile.
    You will still see yourself attacking the boss with your daggers with auto-attacks (if what you like is aesthetical which i suppose is the main reason of playing a sin) and you'll be using puncture as well.
    I didnt really like sab when i first tried it either, give it time though, itll grow on you.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arzo View Post
    Well dont get me wrong i understand what you're saying and i understand playing a build you like, but the playstyle isnt THAT different.
    .
    True, not that different. But if you want somthing that feels more like a melee rogue and beats sabdancer dps I would go for paragon.

  10. #10
    Champion Cinerus's Avatar
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    For all of you bored with the standard sabdancer. Here's a little tweak to it (single target version).

    Link here

    Rotation:

    4x Spike Charge - Keen Strike - Deadly Strike
    Backstab - Puncture - Precision Strike - Deadly Strike
    Spike Charge - Backstab - Flash of Steel - Detonate

    The rotation is a lot less mindnumbing than the standard sabdancer rotation where you fall asleep during raids. The lazy people can still use macros with this spec.

    Macro 1
    cast Precision Strike
    cast Keen Strike

    Macro 2
    cast Backstab
    cast Puncture
    cast Savage Strike

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    There is a relatively untested but likely viable Assassin bleed based spec floating around, the rotation for it is mildly complicated though. I would imagine the DPS on it is at least up to par with what is needed, maybe not necessarily top DPS, but who cares about that as long as the job gets done, and done right?

    Here's the link: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M....V0xz.Vf0A0s0o

    but as I said, it's had little testing or feedback.
    Last edited by devour; 08-11-2011 at 12:55 AM.

  12. #12
    Champion Cinerus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devour View Post
    There is a relatively untested but likely viable Assassin bleed based spec floating around, the rotation for it is mildly complicated though. I would imagine the DPS on it is at least up to par with what is needed, maybe not necessarily top DPS, but who cares about that as long as the job gets done, and done right?

    Here's the link: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M....V0xz.Vf0A0s0o

    but as I said, it's had little testing or feedback.
    Funny, I came up with almost the exact same spec. Not sure how well it does now, since it's been a while that I tried it.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...cxof0doR.V0xzh

    Macro #1
    #show Backstab
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Weapon Barrage
    cast Backstab
    cast Quick Strike
    cast Keen Strike

    I have all 2 CP abilities bound to seperate keys.

    Opener
    Jagged Strike - Fiery Spike (2x) - Impale

    Rotation
    Puncture - Macro #1 - Fiery Spike - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike
    Precision Strike - Macro #1 - Fiery Spike - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike
    Dusk Strike - Macro #1 - Fiery Spike - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike

    When applying Impale, you follow standard rotation, except you use Macro #1 instead of Fiery Spike. This will make sure Fiery Spike is up to full potential, not re-applying it without Deadly Dance.

    Example during fight:

    Puncture - Macro #1 - Fiery Spike - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike
    Precision - Macro #1 - Fiery Spike - Macro #1 - Impale
    Dusk Strike - Macro #1 - Macro #1 - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike
    Fiery Spike - Puncture - Macro #1 - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike

    Then follow normal rotation again.

    Important
    - Use Slip Away to remove your threat and re-apply Jagged Strike (make sure you do this after Deadly Strike for extra damage to Jagged Strike)
    - Keep Impale up as much as you can
    - Don't use Blade Tempo before you have used Slip Away once, unless the tank has Intercept / Incriminate, you'll aggro

    Pros
    - Easy rotation
    - Slip away removing all your threat
    - No problems with energy management even without Living Energy / Fervor

    Cons
    - Hardly any ranged utlity
    - Have to keep track of Impale carefully
    Last edited by Cinerus; 08-11-2011 at 12:59 AM.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinerus View Post
    Funny, I came up with almost the exact same spec. Not sure how well it does now, since it's been a while that I tried it.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...cxof0doR.V0xzh

    Macro #1
    #show Backstab
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Weapon Barrage
    cast Backstab
    cast Quick Strike
    cast Keen Strike

    I have all 2 CP abilities bound to seperate keys.

    Opener
    Jagged Strike - Fiery Spike (2x) - Impale

    Rotation
    Puncture - Macro #1 - Fiery Spike - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike
    Precision Strike - Macro #1 - Fiery Spike - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike
    Dusk Strike - Macro #1 - Fiery Spike - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike

    When applying Impale, you follow standard rotation, except you use Macro #1 instead of Fiery Spike. This will make sure Fiery Spike is up to full potential, not re-applying it without Deadly Dance.

    Example during fight:

    Puncture - Macro #1 - Fiery Spike - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike
    Precision - Macro #1 - Fiery Spike - Macro #1 - Impale
    Dusk Strike - Macro #1 - Macro #1 - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike
    Fiery Spike - Puncture - Macro #1 - Macro #1 - Deadly Strike

    Then follow normal rotation again.

    Important
    - Use Slip Away to remove your threat and re-apply Jagged Strike (make sure you do this after Deadly Strike for extra damage to Jagged Strike)
    - Keep Impale up as much as you can
    - Don't use Blade Tempo before you have used Slip Away once, unless the tank has Intercept / Incriminate, you'll aggro

    Pros
    - Easy rotation
    - Slip away removing all your threat
    - No problems with energy management even without Living Energy / Fervor

    Cons
    - Hardly any ranged utlity
    - Have to keep track of Impale carefully
    Going to try it out; I can't tell you how much money I've spent the past week trying out different setups; lol. I have a 15 button mouse so I usually don't make macro's unless necessary but I like the variation in your rotations. Impale is one of my favorites, we really need a good rogue bar add-on (for the add-on haters it dosen't play for you) just to see all my bleeds up and when running out.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Actually a spec I tried a little yesterday and definately love taking the Sin to the top. One thing I do miss is Foul Play; most of my old guildies used to think I was crazy but I love interrupt , kicks, etc., guess because of the precision timing on them it was just something I loved to include and breaks up a rotation too; lol. Between the FP & WB I loved having the two interrupts. But I'll just resoul if there is a Boss where it is vital to have as many interrupts as possible.

    Also Don't you have to do a Keen Strike before a Quick Strick; figured it was a typo unless something changed.

    But the various NB/SIN/BD specs I can definately work with, still have that rogue feel to them. As I've said numerous times I don't mind being below #1 dps just not too far, plus I bring my damn fine personality to a raid; lol so maybe whichever guild I look into won't put all sabdancers in.

    Thanks everyone so much, going to be studying the NB & BD to get a better understanding of the rotations; stats; etc., god I love the theorycrafters they make our lives so much better and I have to say this community is really good and I totally appreciate it!!!
    Peace out,
    Sassie

  15. #15
    Plane Touched Bellamorte's Avatar
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    im using a modified version of the hoko spec, does decent dps i rarely see myself under 800dps and still does good dps if pet dies and insta cast pet isnt up
    Last edited by Bellamorte; 08-12-2011 at 10:17 AM.

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