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Thread: I dont know what to do anymore...

  1. #1
    Banned Toxen's Avatar
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    Default I dont know what to do anymore...

    I have spent 3 months PuGing and collecting Tank gear and finished getting all the T2 vender stuff, have both Titan slayers, Lion tamer, and Crustacean Talisman, and joined some random pugs for raid rifts and have 3/6 epic lessers.


    Problem: After reading many guides and specs I cant seem to handle aggro. Parsers are showing me DPS are pulling off 945-1100 dps, single target, and AoE wise 1209 - 1670 dps and... I lose aggro in about 5-7 seconds into the fight. I have tried everything in my power and by guides to improve but I cant hold the threat before I finish building my buffs to generate threat or finishing my buffs before dieing.

    It really is dishearting that I cannot generate any threat at great mere seconds speed compare to other classes and to notably point out, Warriors, that can generate great amount of threat spreading 4 groups of DoTs every 8-12 seconds AoE wise, similar to Death knight tanking aka WoW, on groups.

    I have also been out threated on a Warrior Tank when testing on a solo target just to see what the problem is and by far.... his threat generating levels was 587 ptns higher, in a 10 min testing, compare to my threat generating speed.


    Due to me working so hard for 3 months collecting tank gear and finally found a guild to start raiding, I come to find out that I still cant Tank because of the threat problem or being hit to hard before I die due to being unable to get my buffs up quick enough, inlcuding the use of CDs, before I die.


    I dont feel like starting all over, paying a company that falsely advertise a class that doesn't offer equality on Tanking and due to the grinding to get geared, it'll take me about 2-3 weeks to get geared in T2 to be a DPS.

    Its unfair that I cant experience the end game, falsely advertised tanking class, and now stuck to wishful thinking and forced to watch videos of other people that can play end game.

    To add for a last note for the amount of time in the 3 months trying to get ready to raid, people are done with Greenscale, River of Souls, and Guilded Prophecy. So I am so far behind... now that Hammerknell is coming, I do not think I will ever catch up.


    So I need an honest opinion, should I just quite or should I just keep trying and spend countless hours on with this toon and hope for the best?
    Last edited by Toxen; 07-15-2011 at 10:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara
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    Obviously the fault is at your end and not on the games end.

    Are you spamming Planar Strike enough ?

    Spamming Rift Disturbance everytime its off cd?

    Shadow Blitz-->Rift Disturb-->Repeat on CD on aoe packs?

    Do you even have the required 223 hit + in the raid or are you missing and dodging all the time? Those are basic stuff but most people dont even have/know them.

    When it comes to buffs. you are not supposed to POP all of them instantly.

    There is one buff and only one that needs to be up instantly, before you start tanking, and that is Rift Guard.

    51 RS/8 BD/7 Ranger is perfect for that.

    Quick Shot->Quick Shot-->Quick Shot-->Rift Guard-->Start tanking by going inside with whatever ability you want, i like Shadow Blitz.

    Phantom Blow-->Planar Strike-->Phantom Blow-->Guarded Steel

    Phantom Blow-->Planar Strikex4 -->Rift Guard

    Planar Strike x 5-->False Blade

    Phantom Blow-->Planar Strike x 4 -->Guarded Steel

    Then after that its all about making sure Rift Guard never runs out, spamming Planar strike, 1 phantom blow every 3(4) rotations and thats it, cant be more faceroll than that and keep Rift Disturbance on CD.
    Last edited by potis; 07-15-2011 at 10:41 PM.

  3. #3
    Banned Toxen's Avatar
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    You know it would had been nice if you read the post instead of skimming through it.

    I said that I was having threat issues with players generating more damage than I could generate threat with the rotations.
    Last edited by Toxen; 07-15-2011 at 10:46 PM.

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara
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    And i asked if you are doing the correct stuff, you know you might be spamming wrong abilities believe they are better when they arent.

    I have seen a rogue "tank" spam Keen Strike instead of Planar Strike, go figure?

    Maybe you are spending too much time trying to stay alive instead of producing threat?

    Its literally the first time i heard someone complain about single target threat as a rogue tank, losing some mob now and then inside 5-10 mobs, its understandable, Shadow Blizt or RD didnt reach or hit, but losing agroo from a boss is like, impossible.

    If you really have such an issue, tell your rogue DPS to Incriminate, if they dont have a sabo spec tell them to l2p and get one.
    Last edited by potis; 07-15-2011 at 11:07 PM.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    Try going 51 rift. Use planner attraction whenever mobs are moving away, then rift disturbance, shadow blitz one after another. For single target i'm supprised. I usually spam planar strike. Whats your spec? I know that with the rift defence buff it increases threat for every point you put in. Make sure your not using the rift offence buff by accident. I find it hard to believe your dps is 1k a sec while tanking and you have a decent spec at the same time

  6. #6
    Banned Toxen's Avatar
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    Sorry for the late reply too the two posters, Potis and Shydex, I was reading something to double check the numbers.

    No the rotation and spec are fine.

    My issues is when the initial pull and if new adds pop up, that the dps I random PuG with do 954-1100 dps and 1200 - 1400+ AoE dmg on the parser.

    No, I didn't speak about the dps I pull off on Tanking.

    The Testing on threat for 10 mins with a warrior tank, the add-on did show how much threat we are generating together per second, the warrior on single threat and AoE spread threat generating was greater than my threat generating abilities and AoE threat generating.

    I am also working on the fact that since certain bosses that "Enrage", the burst or later on burst dps that people are suppose to wait the CDs on, or people with high crit, or possibly players with raid gear versus me with full T2, is... in fact causing threat issues for casuals.
    Last edited by Toxen; 07-16-2011 at 12:35 AM.

  7. #7
    Telaran Argee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxen View Post
    You know it would had been nice if you read the post instead of skimming through it.

    I said that I was having threat issues with players generating more damage than I could generate threat with the rotations.
    It looks like he read yours, whereas you didn't read his.

    Regardless of what your dps parse at, there is no reason why you should not be able to generate enough threat, by following the instructions in his post, to tank in raids.

    The class works. Either you are doing something wrong, or you need to tell your dps to not go balls deep the instant you aggro the mob.
    Officer of Ginnunga.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    Did you train your skills?

  9. #9
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    I used to get asked about this a lot. 90% of the time the problem is that they are using Phantom Blow instead of Planar Strike. Planar Strike does a LOT more threat than Phantom Blow. You should only use Phantom once every 20 seconds to maintain the buff. Other than that, spam Planar Strike.

    On the off chance that isn't the problem, make sure you have Guarded Steel up first thing in the fight and that you have the Improved Guarded Steel talent. If you have Guarded Steel active with Improved Guarded Steel and you spam Planar Strike, you will hold threat on a single target, no questions asked.

    As an aside, warriors tanks currently do a good bit more threat than Rogues due to Spotter's Orders being ridiculous. Don't worry if warrior tanks do more threat than you.
    Last edited by Dunharrow; 07-16-2011 at 02:15 AM.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser Devious's Avatar
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    I'm going to assume your spec is 51 RS / 8 BD / 7 RNG.

    Part 1: The pull

    In this scenario, Splinter Shot -> Shadow Blitz = 3 combo points, immediately Guarded Steel. This gives you 30 seconds to re-apply GS, which is EASILY enough to put up both a 5 combo point Rift Guard AND a 5 combo point False Blade.

    Following GS, Rift Disturbance whenever needed for multi-packs. Now due to improved GS you get +40% threat on that initial Rift Disturbance (helps a lot honestly).

    1. Splinter shot, Shadow blitz: GS (At lower gear levels like yours you might want to blow 1 of your cds here)
    2. Phantom, Phantom, Phantom, Planar, Planar : Rift Guard
    3. Planar x5: False Blade
    4. planar x5 : GS
    6. phantom, planar x4: Annihilate
    7. planar x5: Rift Guard

    Repeat 3-7 as necessary. Depending on latency you might want to watch for refreshing phantom early. But ONLY ever refresh it, DO NOT SPAM IT. It is terrible threat compared to planar strike.

    I can tell you honestly I tank for people pulling 1900 single target dps and do not lose aggro. An upgraded weapon will help a lot as the dps multiplier from it will make a large difference to your threat.

    ------------

    On to part 2: Adds to the fight
    If an add joins the battle mid fight the first thing you want to do is use instigate on it. This will give you 4 seconds to apply as much threat as you can. While its running to you feel free to use planar switch to transfer over your combo points from your last target and then Spam planar strike, it is the highest generating threat ability. You really shouldn't lose aggro on it if you do this.

    If you find threat is still an issue I recommend using the Crustacean Talisman trinket from xAP for additional threat.

    -----------

    I guarantee you rogues can hold threat single target, aoe is a little more tricky and best left to the burly warrior types, not least because they deal with physical mitigation a lot better anyway. The problem is definitely with you and learning to maximise your threat is a big part of being a tank.

    ----------

    Not sure if you have it but there is a greater essence from the life raid rift which generates threat and increases armor when you dodge. It is very useful.

    Good luck!

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