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Thread: Archer - Marksman and Ranger 1.4....still forced to use a pet in PvE!

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    Soulwalker
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    Default Archer - Marksman and Ranger 1.4....still forced to use a pet in PvE!

    I am disapointed with Rift, since i started to play this game i have wanted to play a Marksman and not being forced to use a pet if i wanted to do decent dmg PvE.

    I was hoping that some changes would come in 1.4 but nothing, im still forced to play with a pet if i want to be a archer that are of use to my guild in PvE.

    Are there any real need for a Markman in this game, outside PvP ?.

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    Rift Disciple Tnanever's Avatar
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    I don't understand posts like this.

    vi·a·ble/ˈvīəbəl/Adjective
    1. Capable of working successfully; feasible: "the proposed investment was economically viable
    There are PLENTY of Marksman builds (51mrk/15rng/0sin, 30+marks/17sin/x) that are viable. Your wording is just screaming "I want Marks to be FOTM!". Saboteur may be the highest DPS ranged spec currently, but Marks is only a few hundred DPS behind on a single target. That is viable. Play what you want, but don't cry because your build isn't top DPS. MMOs are by definition very hard to balance, I suggest you suck it up, princess.

    /rant.
    Last edited by Tnanever; 07-14-2011 at 01:38 AM.
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    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tnanever View Post
    I don't understand posts like this.



    There are PLENTY of Marksman builds (51mrk/15rng/0sin, 30+marks/17sin/x) that are viable. Your wording is just screaming "I want Marks to be FOTM!". Saboteur may be the highest DPS ranged spec currently, but Marks is only a few hundred DPS behind on a single target. That is viable. Play what you want, but don't cry because your build isn't top DPS. MMOs are by definition very hard to balance, I suggest you suck it up, princess.

    /rant.
    How can this be viable?
    1) You have melee dps that is way superior then saboteur in only melee fights.
    2) You have saboteur that is superior to MM.
    3) You have MM that is a few hundred dps below saboteur and you have saboteur that is a few hundred dps below melee.
    4) MM has no AOE.

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    Rift Disciple Tnanever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    How can this be viable?
    1) You have melee dps that is way superior then saboteur in only melee fights.
    2) You have saboteur that is superior to MM.
    3) You have MM that is a few hundred dps below saboteur and you have saboteur that is a few hundred dps below melee.
    4) MM has no AOE.
    1) Because melee isn't ranged? It's obvious he was clearly speaking of ranged pve dps.
    2) You either didn't read my post, or just don't understand. Viable does not equal Best.
    3) So what?
    4) Fan Out, Lightning Fury, Crossfire, Repelling Shot.
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    Soulwalker
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    I DO NOT want MM to be fotm, but i like the idea of MM and ive been playing one since BETA. The dps isnt the issue, the issue is that you are force to play a ceratin spec if you want decent dps as a ranged rogue.

    I did not write that i want to do top dps, but being a few hundred dps or more behind isnt viable. If you want to play a ARCHER and do not want to PVP then your choices are very limited at best (Sozu).

    My point being that i want to play a ARCHER wihtout a PET, i dont want to play a SAB, they are boring and it isnt a ARCHER.

    At the moment playing as a Ranger with a pet, at least it is a archer. But i was hoping for some changes that would make it possible for me to choose to play as a MM instead.

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    Soulwalker Sinner8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeventhfool View Post
    I DO NOT want MM to be fotm, but i like the idea of MM and ive been playing one since BETA. The dps isnt the issue, the issue is that you are force to play a ceratin spec if you want decent dps as a ranged rogue.

    I did not write that i want to do top dps, but being a few hundred dps or more behind isnt viable. If you want to play a ARCHER and do not want to PVP then your choices are very limited at best (Sozu).

    My point being that i want to play a ARCHER wihtout a PET, i dont want to play a SAB, they are boring and it isnt a ARCHER.

    At the moment playing as a Ranger with a pet, at least it is a archer. But i was hoping for some changes that would make it possible for me to choose to play as a MM instead.
    Agreed, i think it sucks that you are forced in end game PVE to range 44 pt Sab or Sozu spec with pet. And maybe I'm doing it wrong (not a very complex rotation though, don't know i could?) but I can't get near as good ranged single-target DPS in GSB with ranged Sab as I can melee in Sabodancer. Like 200-300 less. My Rotation is just 5x Spike DET and 5X Shrap DET and keep poison malice up.

    Also, is it true that with Sab u should really focus all gear and lessers on physical crit and not AP? Cuz I've been trying to stack AP (thought it was much more important for rogues) and now my Sab builds don't seem as good, my crit rtg is only about 900 now. i may try Sozu spec again, just wondering how bad DPS gimps once pet dies?

  7. #7
    Soulwalker Dashizer's Avatar
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    Cool

    If you want to contribute to a raid, or anything in PvE you shouldn't be playing a MM rogue.

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    Soulwalker
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    Dashizer i agree, but shouldnt you be able to contribute as a MM, i like the MM but i am forced to play Ranger and that is just the thing i want Rift to change.

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    Plane Walker Alder's Avatar
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    We've been asking for this since MM was nerfed in beta, believe me. The problem is if you make petless MM do the same dps as a ranger with a pet, then people are just going to start using pets on MM. Pet dps would have to be reduced significantly and maybe given more debuff or buff options instead.

    It doesn't help the fact that many of our skills seem more suited for pvp. Movement speed buffs + pedestals are just counterintuitive.

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    marksman is not viable in endgame raiding, you know this tnan as you tried it many times in our raids and kept failing, stop trying to refute the OP and you know him to be right.

    marksman on a long sustained fight is a good 400dps minimum behind ranger with a pet.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

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    Rift Disciple Tnanever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    marksman is not viable in endgame raiding,...

    ...marksman on a long sustained fight is a good 400dps minimum behind ranger with a pet.
    You're right. At the tip-top endgame like us, Marksman isn't viable. For everyone else, it does just fine. If you play Marksman and pull over "x dps" that is required for a bosses enrage timer, then it's viable. Doesn't mean it's good.

    I don't think anyone is understanding my point. If you're really not a hardcore guild, play what you want. If Marksman is 400 dps behind Ranger, and Ranger is pulling 1400, 1000dps is plenty to do what is required of you.

    All that being said, if you -are- in a hardcore progressing guild then you wouldn't care what spec you play because your main goal is to kill the boss. Marksman needs a buff to be competitive at the top, but it's still viable in it's current state.

    You want an example of something non-viable? Cabalist.
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  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tnanever View Post
    You're right. At the tip-top endgame like us, Marksman isn't viable. For everyone else, it does just fine. If you play Marksman and pull over "x dps" that is required for a bosses enrage timer, then it's viable. Doesn't mean it's good.

    I don't think anyone is understanding my point. If you're really not a hardcore guild, play what you want. If Marksman is 400 dps behind Ranger, and Ranger is pulling 1400, 1000dps is plenty to do what is required of you.

    All that being said, if you -are- in a hardcore progressing guild then you wouldn't care what spec you play because your main goal is to kill the boss. Marksman needs a buff to be competitive at the top, but it's still viable in it's current state.

    You want an example of something non-viable? Cabalist.
    This post is on the mark. There is currently nothing in this came that requires optimization. You can do every encounter in the is game without anyone in the raid min/maxed or metagamed. You might be better and faster on progression, but what really matters is whether you and your guild mates are in it for intrinsic or extrinsic reasons. A "hardcore" guild need not be just extrinsically motivated. This is a false conclusion.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Israfel of Hate View Post
    This post is on the mark. There is currently nothing in this came that requires optimization. You can do every encounter in the is game without anyone in the raid min/maxed or metagamed. You might be better and faster on progression, but what really matters is whether you and your guild mates are in it for intrinsic or extrinsic reasons. A "hardcore" guild need not be just extrinsically motivated. This is a false conclusion.
    this is true for now, but if HK does not change this i will not bother raiding it more than a week or two. im hardcore, i want others to be hardcore with me, if the new raid is as easy as the last 2 im done with rift and i know most of my friends will quit too.

    easy content is great for the beginning of a game, even WoW had easy content when it started (MC) but the later content (BWL) was leaps and bounds harder than MC, HK has to be this way or rift will fail for pve raiding. it already failed for pvp grinding... i doubt 1.4 will revitalize it either.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    this is true for now, but if HK does not change this i will not bother raiding it more than a week or two. im hardcore, i want others to be hardcore with me, if the new raid is as easy as the last 2 im done with rift and i know most of my friends will quit too.

    easy content is great for the beginning of a game, even WoW had easy content when it started (MC) but the later content (BWL) was leaps and bounds harder than MC, HK has to be this way or rift will fail for pve raiding. it already failed for pvp grinding... i doubt 1.4 will revitalize it either.
    MC took from the Jan 20th - April 25th from first boss to last boss. BWL was Jul 12th - Sept 26th for first to last boss kills. The first few bosses usually died extremely fast (within a week or so) but finishing the whole instance always kept people coming back. Keeping content slow is definitely a good thing, but when done now people complain that gear is too hard to obtain...even with getting tokens for something off every boss.
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    Plane Touched Onyx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeventhfool View Post
    I DO NOT want MM to be fotm, but i like the idea of MM and ive been playing one since BETA. The dps isnt the issue, the issue is that you are force to play a ceratin spec if you want decent dps as a ranged rogue.

    I did not write that i want to do top dps, but being a few hundred dps or more behind isnt viable. If you want to play a ARCHER and do not want to PVP then your choices are very limited at best (Sozu).

    My point being that i want to play a ARCHER wihtout a PET, i dont want to play a SAB, they are boring and it isnt a ARCHER.

    At the moment playing as a Ranger with a pet, at least it is a archer. But i was hoping for some changes that would make it possible for me to choose to play as a MM instead.
    You realize that "ARCHER" is not a soul right? You sound like a mentally handicapped three year old.

    "I am mad that I can't be an ARCHER and no one will run at me in PvE because I'm an ARCHER and I do incredible dps because I love the playstyle of ARCHER it is the ARCHER in me I guess. I have been an ARCHER since beta and pretty much my whole life I have loved the idea of being an ARCHER."
    "If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near."

    - Sun Tzu

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