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Thread: Rogue Tank Desperate for Help

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Mocotriste's Avatar
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    Default Rogue Tank Desperate for Help

    I love tanking...but there's 2 things keeping me dreading T2's atm:

    #1. I can't for the life of me keep the aggro at the pull. I shadow blitz in, do the aoe taunt, and most times the skill that pulls mobs too me. Invariably, 2-3 run away and **** the healer...then we wipe. Yes, I've got the right buff up...srsly can't figure this out...
    #2. Why am I so darn squishy? I have improved shield on plane shifting, get my shield up as soon as I have 2 combo pts, then I get the 3stack of whatever that skill is called, but still I seem weak...I've got 159 toughness, and around 9500hp, lots of dodge...part of me wants to believe pug heals are notsogood, but I dunno.

    Bosses I do just fine, mechanics are no problem, it's just the goldarn trashpacks running amok that are ruining my fun.

    Please fortheluva all that's gud, wat tha F am i doin wrong

    p.s. I hear so much how warr tanks are inferior, but whenever I'm dps'ng and a warr is tanking, everything about it seems easier...zero aggro issues, no spikey health scares, they all just lumber in picking up mobs from half a zone away and all is smooth as silk.../sigh
    Last edited by Mocotriste; 07-13-2011 at 12:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Rogue tank are squishy. Problem is a lot of healer out there think they can solo heal rogue tank after they solo heal warrior tank whom is fully t2 geared or t3. These arrogance healers also seems to refuse to use a supporter. To me, people whom refuse to work together isn't worth it to group with, so just drop party /ignore that person. My static healer had to shift spec around so he can heal me more efficiently and also ask for bard help as needed.

    Warrior tank does take less physical damage compare to us. They have block (we have dodge); Warrior can also get a trinket that heal over 2k on block. And more aggro tools than us.

    Any way, if you have a cleric healer whom stacks HoTs before you pull. That cleric better know how to lost of sight during pull or you get a party wipe.

    I start pull with Shadow Blitz > Plannar Attraction > Rift Disturbance > use Planar Refuge or 3 sec immune as needed. Even with this, sometime 1 or 2 mobs manage to run to the group. This is when you use Instigate and/or Shadow Assault to grab these then run to it and use Plannar Srike > Rift Disturbance. If it's large pull like the first big platform in CC, I start with Side Steps.

    With 51,Bd,Rng setup i walk around with 10% dodge rate; 11k hp selfbuff.
    51,Rng,Bard about 12k hp selfbuffs.
    I'm full T2 with glove and body are T3.
    Last edited by SamayouSamurai; 07-13-2011 at 01:14 PM.

  3. #3
    General of Telara livnthedream's Avatar
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    51rs/8bd/7brd is your preferred t2 spec. the extra aggro from strike back is good, and t2s are the only place streetwise is worth it. use memory capture/flashback to los and gather mobs, also tab targeting through mobs using planar switch as much as possible will help tons with you aoe aggro. right now warrior aoe threat is insane, ours is not, to make t2 runs go smoothly the group needs to understand rogue strengths and weaknesses.
    "I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won."

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    I hadn't looked at bard for the third soul but that street smart talent looks very promising, been running 51rs/8bd/7rng. Even though my rogue is up to 100 toughness I'm sticking to T1's, mostly because it's true I can use more of the T1 reward gear (need new gloves). I used my cleric for tanking for a while and really liked it, thought I'd give rogue tanking a try and although it's fun it's very difficult. Compared to warriors and clerics I am incredibly squishy, I do great on groups with a lot of casters but melee dps destroys me. Also, you're not allowed to make mistakes, you have to pay attention to the game mechanics, keep up four different buffs, watch your hp so that if it dips too low you can cast one of your oh **** buttons, taunt the stragglers off group members, and keep up your rift disturbance on multiple mobs for aggro.

    If you want to tank but aren't committed to having to do everything absolutely perfect you'd be much better off rolling a warrior or cleric tank.

  5. #5
    Ascendant
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    I tanked with Riftstalker the whole way up from about level 16. I have tanked every dungeon in the game (expert and normal) and I've had a lot of healers tell me that I'm significantly easier to heal than warriors. Despite what it may look like (and even what other people will tell you) the Riftstalker is *NOT* an avoidance tank. Just like warriors and clerics, we are mitigation tanks and the majority of our 'tankiness' comes from our ability to directly reduce incoming damage via armor and in our case, Rift Guard. People say 'Warriors get block, Riftstalkers get dodge.' This is incorrect, they should say 'Warriors get block, Riftstalkers get Rift Barrier'.

    I know that a fair number of people are going to disagree with me on this, but think of it this way: Rift Guard is a constant 37.5% less damage. Dodge is 10-20% chance to not get hit.

    For expert dungeons, you will need 2 tank specs.

    Spec 1: Riftstalker (51) / Bladedancer (8) / Ranger (7)
    This will be your spec for every fight in every expert dungeon where you don't *NEED* an interupt.

    Spec 2: Riftstalker (46) / Bladedancer (12) / Ranger (8)
    This is your spec for fights that *NEED* an interupt. I'm not talking about the Pyromaster's Cinderburst in the Fall of Lantern Hook. I'm not talking about interupting heals on the three kings fight in Iron Tombs, I'm talking Gregori Krezlav's Death Blast which has a real chance of actually killing you.

    Don't use bard for expert dungeons. Ever. Quick Shot is too good to give up, not to mention that 4% (or 6%) less damage taken is better than having 5% more hitpoints and a 3% chance to not get hit.

    The biggest thing I can suggest is to get a T2 weapon, put it in your main hand and watch your agro problems disapear. All your threat generating abilities are based on your weapon DPS.

    As far as pulls go, these can suck for Rogues. For single and small packs (3 mobs) you can safely Shadow Blitz into the middle of them (usually) and hit Rift Disturbance on cooldown. This should enable you to hold agro fairly easily. A DPS focusing down the guy you're not hitting will still take it off you, but as long as you hit everything with Rift Disturbance your healer will be safe. I generally will pick the big guy in the pack and just stay on him until he dies. Keep Instigate ready though.

    On packs like in Runic Descent where there are large numbers of weak mobs spread all over the place (looking at you little white ghosts here) the best way I've found to pull them is to shoot one with Quick Shot so they all run towards you, then Shadow Blitz into them once they've bunched up a bit.

    Planar Attraction is almost always used as a positioner for me. I know it's also a taunt, but I just don't use it that way. I use it to pull casters together (usually if you stand in the middle of them you'll hit both) and to put everything right infront of me so they can all get hit by Rift Disturbance.

    Planar Refuge is another skill that I've only seen one other rogue tank use... ever. If you're getting beat down, pick the biggest guy in the group and put him on ice for 7 seconds. This will give your healer a chance to catch up. It *WILL* piss your DPS off though, since they'll most likely be targetting that mob for their damage. But is it better to die with the mob at 20%, or to extend the fight by 7 seconds but not die? You be the judge, I'll take not dieing every time.

    With 159 toughness and 9500 hitpoints, I'm going to assume you're using atleast a few pieces of T2 tanking leather and maybe a rune on your chest. I'm also going to assume that the rest of your armor is crap, because in all T1 leather my hitpoints were 11k, and I only had 100 toughness. Speaking of toughness, once you have 100 toughness, IGNORE IT. Anything over 100 is useless for dungeons. Also, you need to be looking at your ARMOR, not your hitpoints or toughness. More armor = less squishy = easier to heal. More hitpoints just means it takes an extra swing for the mob to kill you because you're taking more damage than the healer can heal.

    Look into getting some fortification potions and/or armor plates. These will help your armor alot.

    EDIT: Warriors take physical damage better than us due to block (which is being nerfed/fixed next patch) but we take magical damage better than they do. The only two things that warriors have over us is that their interupt doesn't require them to screw their spec and that their AOE threat is a joke. It's so easy to keep everything glued to you as a warrior its not funny.
    Last edited by Paikis; 07-13-2011 at 04:01 PM.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Mocotriste's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for the great info.

    I switched by bard to ranger last night, and my HP dropped down to about 8800...Ran part of a T2 and was noticeably more durable though. However, wiped 3x on the ghosts +shade in RD and told grp I'd drop and let them get another tank...same problem, I blitzed in, rift disturbance, and 2-3 ghosts immediately bum-rushed the healer and we wiped...3x...all I can think is I'm not close enough to all the mobs when I pop my AoEs? Oh, and since I popped my 2 AoE threats, I can't AoE the mobs that are rapidly killing the healer, I just frantically try to alt-tab planar strike them which you know doesn't work in the clutch...

    Pretty bummed last night rly, I been tanking for 2-3 years in WoW, so I'm not a nub tank, just the mechanics of the rogue pull aggro on spread out mobs has got me stupefied...honestly, until T2 I thot rogue aggro was OP and I basically slept through all trash fites...now, I find myself pausing and wiping my brow a bit before engaging a trash pack with > 5 mobs...

    Someone suggested re-roll to warrs, but a.) that's a deal-breaker, at this point I only have time for getting ONE toon raid ready, and starting from lvl 1 is too depressing to imagine, b.) heard a rumor that warr threat was getting nerfed, so this might be a moot point.

    As far as my gear, I double-checked it last night and I'm wearing 50% purples and 50% T1 equivalent blues (based on comparison with the T1 vendor gear)...As well, I have runes on all pieces. Both my weaps are purps, both +dex runes, bow is T2 purple, +dex (or is that atk power?).

    I'm going to work on positioning and proximity as being my main problem...the range for my threat AoEs seems really small...

    Thanks again for the nice info, especially the great write-up Paikis.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple
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    The bard talent Street Smart IS USELESS. Toughness does the same thing. Since you should be toughness capped before you step into a dungeon there's no reason to waste the points.

  8. #8
    Champion ninefourtyfour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mocotriste View Post
    Thanks guys for the great info.

    I switched by bard to ranger last night, and my HP dropped down to about 8800...Ran part of a T2 and was noticeably more durable though. However, wiped 3x on the ghosts +shade in RD and told grp I'd drop and let them get another tank...same problem, I blitzed in, rift disturbance, and 2-3 ghosts immediately bum-rushed the healer and we wiped...3x...all I can think is I'm not close enough to all the mobs when I pop my AoEs? Oh, and since I popped my 2 AoE threats, I can't AoE the mobs that are rapidly killing the healer, I just frantically try to alt-tab planar strike them which you know doesn't work in the clutch...

    Pretty bummed last night rly, I been tanking for 2-3 years in WoW, so I'm not a nub tank, just the mechanics of the rogue pull aggro on spread out mobs has got me stupefied...honestly, until T2 I thot rogue aggro was OP and I basically slept through all trash fites...now, I find myself pausing and wiping my brow a bit before engaging a trash pack with > 5 mobs...

    Someone suggested re-roll to warrs, but a.) that's a deal-breaker, at this point I only have time for getting ONE toon raid ready, and starting from lvl 1 is too depressing to imagine, b.) heard a rumor that warr threat was getting nerfed, so this might be a moot point.

    As far as my gear, I double-checked it last night and I'm wearing 50% purples and 50% T1 equivalent blues (based on comparison with the T1 vendor gear)...As well, I have runes on all pieces. Both my weaps are purps, both +dex runes, bow is T2 purple, +dex (or is that atk power?).

    I'm going to work on positioning and proximity as being my main problem...the range for my threat AoEs seems really small...

    Thanks again for the nice info, especially the great write-up Paikis.
    splinter shot -> shadow assault ->rift disturbance-> guarded steel -> shadow blitz

    Also they are melee, dont forget to pop sidesteps if necessary, with strike back it generates a tons of threat.
    Last edited by ninefourtyfour; 07-14-2011 at 06:15 AM.

  9. #9
    Champion ninefourtyfour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    I tanked with Riftstalker the whole way up from about level 16. I have tanked every dungeon in the game (expert and normal) and I've had a lot of healers tell me that I'm significantly easier to heal than warriors. Despite what it may look like (and even what other people will tell you) the Riftstalker is *NOT* an avoidance tank. Just like warriors and clerics, we are mitigation tanks and the majority of our 'tankiness' comes from our ability to directly reduce incoming damage via armor and in our case, Rift Guard. People say 'Warriors get block, Riftstalkers get dodge.' This is incorrect, they should say 'Warriors get block, Riftstalkers get Rift Barrier'.

    I know that a fair number of people are going to disagree with me on this, but think of it this way: Rift Guard is a constant 37.5% less damage. Dodge is 10-20% chance to not get hit.

    For expert dungeons, you will need 2 tank specs.

    Spec 1: Riftstalker (51) / Bladedancer (8) / Ranger (7)
    This will be your spec for every fight in every expert dungeon where you don't *NEED* an interupt.

    Spec 2: Riftstalker (46) / Bladedancer (12) / Ranger (8)
    This is your spec for fights that *NEED* an interupt. I'm not talking about the Pyromaster's Cinderburst in the Fall of Lantern Hook. I'm not talking about interupting heals on the three kings fight in Iron Tombs, I'm talking Gregori Krezlav's Death Blast which has a real chance of actually killing you.

    Don't use bard for expert dungeons. Ever. Quick Shot is too good to give up, not to mention that 4% (or 6%) less damage taken is better than having 5% more hitpoints and a 3% chance to not get hit.

    The biggest thing I can suggest is to get a T2 weapon, put it in your main hand and watch your agro problems disapear. All your threat generating abilities are based on your weapon DPS.

    As far as pulls go, these can suck for Rogues. For single and small packs (3 mobs) you can safely Shadow Blitz into the middle of them (usually) and hit Rift Disturbance on cooldown. This should enable you to hold agro fairly easily. A DPS focusing down the guy you're not hitting will still take it off you, but as long as you hit everything with Rift Disturbance your healer will be safe. I generally will pick the big guy in the pack and just stay on him until he dies. Keep Instigate ready though.

    On packs like in Runic Descent where there are large numbers of weak mobs spread all over the place (looking at you little white ghosts here) the best way I've found to pull them is to shoot one with Quick Shot so they all run towards you, then Shadow Blitz into them once they've bunched up a bit.

    Planar Attraction is almost always used as a positioner for me. I know it's also a taunt, but I just don't use it that way. I use it to pull casters together (usually if you stand in the middle of them you'll hit both) and to put everything right infront of me so they can all get hit by Rift Disturbance.

    Planar Refuge is another skill that I've only seen one other rogue tank use... ever. If you're getting beat down, pick the biggest guy in the group and put him on ice for 7 seconds. This will give your healer a chance to catch up. It *WILL* piss your DPS off though, since they'll most likely be targetting that mob for their damage. But is it better to die with the mob at 20%, or to extend the fight by 7 seconds but not die? You be the judge, I'll take not dieing every time.

    With 159 toughness and 9500 hitpoints, I'm going to assume you're using atleast a few pieces of T2 tanking leather and maybe a rune on your chest. I'm also going to assume that the rest of your armor is crap, because in all T1 leather my hitpoints were 11k, and I only had 100 toughness. Speaking of toughness, once you have 100 toughness, IGNORE IT. Anything over 100 is useless for dungeons. Also, you need to be looking at your ARMOR, not your hitpoints or toughness. More armor = less squishy = easier to heal. More hitpoints just means it takes an extra swing for the mob to kill you because you're taking more damage than the healer can heal.

    Look into getting some fortification potions and/or armor plates. These will help your armor alot.

    EDIT: Warriors take physical damage better than us due to block (which is being nerfed/fixed next patch) but we take magical damage better than they do. The only two things that warriors have over us is that their interupt doesn't require them to screw their spec and that their AOE threat is a joke. It's so easy to keep everything glued to you as a warrior its not funny.
    You mean rift prison, planar refuge is the 30% dmg reduction.

  10. #10
    Rift Master youkiddingme's Avatar
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    Ok, folks, I play out side of the box and reading this and playing a rogue tank. It might be time to try something new. I play 51 Rift, 6 sabotage and 9 ranger most of time. If that cleric does not know to hide drop a trap by him. It sound funny but it works. Agro for you goes up and most of the time the baddie comes to you.
    I also love to use bombs. You donít have to detonate them right off the bat. I use my agro to get in close and as they leave, boom. I set my bombs off and guess what hear they come a running. Adhesion is also a very useful tool to use.
    The end point is Bombs do add to mix, give a little more threat, if used in conjunction with your high threat moves. This will solve the agro issues . This combo allows more aoe to the mix and end result my aoe to mix.
    I also switch it up and do change style with some groups. With a 44 rift, 14 sab and 8 ranger for clerics who cant seem to heal me. This allows me to help dps down the group fast. That the key for me to survive. Get the group down before heals kill me.
    As to my favorite saying is you are to squashy. Well hell yeah I am getting hit by a group of monster. What heals expect from something hitting you, to not take damage. If that possible I sign up for that move. I use macro to get all my bluffs up and reduce down damage as much as possible. But the core problem is that I am getting hit and healer job is to keep you alive.
    All i am saying is do not get stuck in same soul trees for off souls. Look at them all and see what they offer you. Assassin soul tree offer a nice critical bonuses. With high dps equal high threat for you? Night blade has nice increase damage for you combos and signle attacks. How would you threat be if you increase the damage of you combos or single attacks. Just remember a lot of threat is generated by the damage you do to them. Therefore, look, think and understand that it is a matter of what works for you and how your play style works to benefit of the group.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    tell the HoT spamming warden to switch spec or have him and you los the pull. if it's less than 5 mobs, just use planar attraction.

    also try putting up GS near the end of one pull, so you have it up at the beginning of the next pull. don't even bother waiting for the blitz CD. shadow assult then disturbance.
    Last edited by JesterJames; 07-14-2011 at 07:33 AM.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Guipex's Avatar
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    Dont use Shadow Blitz as opener. Start with Shadow Assault, then use Rift Disturbance, then you use your Shadow Blitz to make sure, all monsters will attack you. If you fail the Shadow Blitz when you open, you lose your best aoe aggro, that usually happens. Planar Attraction dont work very well in trash because only affect 5 enemies.

    Just to make sure that you know. Just use Phatom Blow to keep your buff up, then always spam Planar Strike as your filler, coz it give you much more threat. And for sure, always use Rift Disturbance when available.

    Rogue havent the same defense/hp/block like a warrior, so you have to use your cooldowns whenever possible. You have around 3 good cooldowns that you can use almost always, like 1 per pull.

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara
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    If it's a particularly large pull, like the one in RD you mentioned, I always pop sidesteps right before I shift in. With all the free Strike Back threat I can keep the mobs on me.
    Quote Originally Posted by pro View Post
    Rogues are completly fine to be honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by pro
    please stop qq about nerfs because i promise if u keep it up rift will shut down because they have no subribers and we will have wasted our money on a failed game simply because everyone was acting like little kids because they couldnt faceroll anyone and it actually took effort to kill them

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Your technique to pull that group is not quite right. If you have someone in group that can CC the Shade, assign that person to do that. Mage CC after pull or Rogue sab/mez the black Shade before pull.

    Now the 8 white ghosts, have everyone stack up far back at 1 single location directly behind u. you put your memory capture there. Do a range pull on the ghost, warp back. With everyone at single location, all ghosts will run to group in single line. This allow you to Shadow Blitz in and hit all of them without leak. Use Rift Disturbance and of course, use sidesteps already at this point. Trick is to have them gather as they come to ensure your aoe threat tools work its magic.

    If your group has high aoe dps and you don't have CC. Do same pull methed above. Then target Shade, Instigate > Rift Prison. Switch back to White Ghosts then use Rift Distubance again. The ghosts should die before the Shade is out of Prison.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Mocotriste's Avatar
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    More good stuff thanks!

    Using Sidestep sounds like a real winner...I downgraded myself to T1 dungeons for a bit for lower stress practice.

    Using the ranger arrow to pull trash does help.

    I like the strat for pulling the shade with Instigate then prison so I can get the ghosts under control without worrying immediately that the shade will bomb heals.

    Related question: When am I gear-ready for T2s? I've got 159 toughness, but was told today in a T2 that I'm undergeared...yes, my HP is not great (about 9200 grp buffed), but I thot "over 100 tougness, go T2"?

    Thanks peep, more good information in here than I can specifically mention!

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