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Thread: 44Sab/15nb/6Rng(+1) Ranged Sab: Why not?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default 44Sab/15nb/6Rng(+1) Ranged Sab: Why not?

    First forum post, and forgive me if this build and discussion have already been done, but trying to search for anything Saboteur seems only to return posts about Sabdancer, Saboteur crappiness/awesomeness complaining/touting, or the 44sab/20sin/2rng specs.

    I tend to defer to the sorts of people who will spend all day running parses and spreadsheets trying to figure this out, and I believe them in general when they say 44sab/20sin/2rng is the best ranged Sab spec. However, in three 5-minute parses for each build against the Boss dummy I parsed ~80dps higher with this, the spec in the thread title:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....EV0fEdxkoR.Vb

    The "+1" is the second point in Bolster, which can really go anywhere or nowhere.

    Rotation is the same as 44/20/2:
    5xSpike, Det, 5xShrap, Det, repeat ad nauseum.


    So my feeling is, that i must be doing something wrong with the 44/20/2 spec. Otherwise, why isn't 44/15/6 (+1) something I see talked about?

    What could I possibly doing to cost me 80+ dps as 44/20/2?

    (Perhaps it has been and I just havent been able to find the discussion yet, if so I appologize.)
    Last edited by DavidHume; 07-13-2011 at 10:47 AM. Reason: Forgot something.

  2. #2
    Sez
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    Might be a gear scaling issue. The 20% more crit damage for me (47% crit chance) might scale better than just bonus damage that NB gives.
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  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Hmm that makes sense.

    I'm in T2 or better save two slots, neck (Blue T2 drop) and shoulders (purple expert rift drop), sitting at 40% crit... not sure on other stats, not in game atm.

    The 44/20/2 build is often suggested for "new 50's" to "learn awareness", but if the issue is gear scaling on nb vs assassin, 44/20/2 is really for people in at least mostly raid gear, no?

  4. #4
    Telaran Zariyn's Avatar
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    I just ran a couple parses of both specs, and the Assassin one comes out 80ish DPS ahead for my gear level (All T2 + some GSB/GP weapons).

  5. #5
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Might be a gear scaling issue. The 20% more crit damage for me (47% crit chance) might scale better than just bonus damage that NB gives.
    This.

    The base damage increase from NB is better when your stats are, generally speaking, lower. The biggest of these being your Critical %. Once your critical chance approaches approximately 50% or better, the added damage from Magnify Pain becomes more noticeable. This is often compounded by the fact that by the time you hit this kind of critical rate, your AP also tends to have increased, further jacking up the damage numbers. Depending on *how much* Attack Power you have, this can be an insane difference. Case in point, watching the numbers when something like the Codex trinket is "on".

    In short: If you have a lower crit chance, IE a fresh or still young 50, Nightblade will supplement Sab better. Once you start acquiring the better gear and your critical percentage gets up there, Assassin will heavily outstrip Nightblade as a supplemental soul.
    Last edited by RavingLunatic; 07-13-2011 at 11:30 AM.
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  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    I'm definitely satisfied with this explanation. I haven't parsed these two builds since I finished buying my T2 pieces, so it's probably time to redo the parse and see if I've crested out of the nb set and into the sin spec.

    Might be an idea to direct fresh 50s to a nb oriented build, rather than the 44/20/2 that is normally suggested to the guys who show up here 15 minutes after hitting 50 looking for a build. ;)

    They play the same, so it's not like there'd be an adjustment period to swapping to 44/20/2 later on.

  7. #7
    Sez
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    I'm still going to try it, and maybe tweak it slightly.
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    What is your bow dps and your mh weapon dps?
    Last edited by Baramos; 07-13-2011 at 09:37 PM.

  9. #9
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    NB has 18% damage for charges and 18% damage on detonate. Hellfire blades only proc from auto attacks so theres no telling how much 5% from melted skin would be up.

    Sin has 19% damage to charges because both main charges are physical damage plus 10% more with cruel vengeance plus 20% more critical damage plus 2 weapon procs.

    Looking at that I dont see how you would have only 80 dps lower with a NB build, seems like it would be much lower.
    Last edited by Vindicit; 07-14-2011 at 05:08 AM.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    So I finally went back and re-parsed both specs and with my better gear, Assassin is indeed considerably better.

    However, I have a new question:


    Why not take the 3 points out of poison potency and put them into Eagle Eye? +15% of terrible, is still pretty bad. According to my parses, poisons accounted for barely over 1% of my total damage. Shouldn't 3% crit be higher than that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidHume View Post
    So I finally went back and re-parsed both specs and with my better gear, Assassin is indeed considerably better.

    However, I have a new question:


    Why not take the 3 points out of poison potency and put them into Eagle Eye? +15% of terrible, is still pretty bad. According to my parses, poisons accounted for barely over 1% of my total damage. Shouldn't 3% crit be higher than that?
    Even though charges do physical they are considered a poison so this adds to your charge damage. 15% to charges basically not just poison procs.

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  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Zizzu^'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadili View Post
    Even though charges do physical they are considered a poison so this adds to your charge damage. 15% to charges basically not just poison procs.
    /agreed

    Must have poison potency. Parses show it makes a difference.

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    can i use this spec to lvl if i have a 5man team to do dungeons and riftS?

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser Sharpshooter's Avatar
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    Ofc you can use it while leveling (not recommended for soloing though) the only thing is that it doesn't squeeze the most damage out of a ranged saboteur build. If you don't really mind about the build not being optimal damage-wise then its ok.
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  15. #15
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindicit View Post
    NB has 18% damage for charges and 18% damage on detonate. Hellfire blades only proc from auto attacks so theres no telling how much 5% from melted skin would be up.

    Sin has 19% damage to charges because both main charges are physical damage plus 10% more with cruel vengeance plus 20% more critical damage plus 2 weapon procs.

    Looking at that I dont see how you would have only 80 dps lower with a NB build, seems like it would be much lower.
    in addition to 20% more crit damage, and 5% more crit, sin outweighs NB in all situations theres no reason to go nb with 44 sabo at all, you lose too much for nb to be viable

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