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Thread: Bladedancer PvP made viable.

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    Rift Disciple Adrenalyn's Avatar
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    Default Bladedancer PvP made viable.

    What's up people. Back with some new specs for you. After making the NB video I started playing around with different NB specs and tried just about every variation out there. I seen in the video post that some people were still using the 32 Sin / 21 BD / 13 Inf spec I made after 1.2 update. The spec was pretty good and a lot of fun, but It had no heal debuff, which is pretty huge in pvp. That is also the reason I started playing Nightblade.

    So I've decided to go back to my favorite soul, Bladedancer, and try to make it more viable in pvp. I been testing a lot of different variations. Some real deep 40 and 44 point BD specs but none were really that effective. The magic number for points spent in a pvp BD spec seems to be 28. 28 points in BD will get you Vivacity, Disassemble, Disengage and allow for enough room in points to take advantage of others souls for more utility and damage boosts.

    Here are the 2 builds I came up with based on a 28 points BD spec:

    Both of these specs have a heal debuff, good damage, good survivability and a ton of utility and control. I've ran a few WFs with both specs and got to test them out a bit vs different classes / specs, in 1vX fights and fights vs Rank 6 players. Both of them did extremely well. I haven't fought against every class/spec vs rank 6 players but I'm pretty confident in these specs ability to come out on top.

    Of the 2, I would say the 28 BD / 23 Sin / 15 Inf spec is my favorite. Has a higher skill cap than the BD/NB spec since you have 0 ranged ability and your only heal debuff is Anathema. But with proper use and timing of your abilities you can win vs kiters and healers. I chose not to include Puncture or Serrated Blades in this spec. I did this to allow you to use Blind as a gap closer or fight reset which would allow you to restealth and use your Assassinate after a Deadly Strike.

    I haven't got to play these specs all that much but they are doing really well so far. If any Bladedancer fans out there that want to help test these out feel free to give them a try and post your thoughts here good or bad.
    Last edited by Adrenalyn; 07-12-2011 at 04:09 PM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    How do these compare to other PvP souls? Is BD only viable with those 3 other souls? What about with RS?

    I'm fairly new, so I apologize if the answers seem obvious.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    I'm really enjoying my 44 NB/ 22 RS. I've also enjoyed a 35 NB, 16 RS, 15 Inf. I've always tried to figure out bladedancer builds as well, but that damn deep NB keeps taunting me. Blackout will ruin me, it's so hard to live without. Like you, i'm a specaholic. Your about to cost me a few plat, i'll try them out.

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    Plane Touched bleachx's Avatar
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    Hey there Adrenalyn. I tried out the NB one a little while back and had some fun with it. It was a bit different but pretty much the same thing. I was running a 44/22 with rs before hand and after 1.3 it just didn't pack the punch I needed it to so I wanted to try out the deadly boost with NB. Man this build hits hard. Dusk till dawn after a deadly dance had huge ticks not to mention when you ebon fury its perfect with the deadly dance. Dusk, dusk, dusk, deadly hits really friging hard lol its a fun one. It definitely has action on downing those bunny hoping full healers heh. I did miss having blackout though. I found my self really wishing I had it quite often when fighting warriors and when sins would open up on me. Flash of steel and sprint made up for the loss of warps that rs had just fine when it came to catching kiters. If I was to run this again I think dropping blade fineness and going with quick reflexes for the dodge might be better just to help for when someone gets the drop on ya. Oh and to the guy asking about mixing bd with rs I was actually going to try playing with something like that. I like how in rs there's no cool down on stalker phase and guardian phase so you can switch on the fly so if you mixed bd/rs you could have like a tank that could pop stalker phase and burst with bd lol I duno if it would be good at all but its something I wanted to play around with for the lol's. I was thinking something like this maybe http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...o0d.EIxIzRdook oh and defer death is lol's in a duel haha.
    btw I know I already said this in your other thread but very nice video gratz on it.

  5. #5
    Telaran Vamoosh's Avatar
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    I've had some really odd results with Disassemble and Weapon Barrage.
    I started PVP months ago with high BD specifically for Disassemble, Weapon Barrage and Disengage 28 BD/32 Sin/6 Rng and either it used to get purged so quick it wasn't noticable, it didn't interrupt in the case of Barrage or it just plain didn't work, so I moved on and went lower BD.
    How are they working for you?

  6. #6
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    Yeah, I'm the one who suggested the 44nb/22bd spec in your nightblade thread. I thought about going more in bladedancer, but I'm only halfway to rank 5, so blackout helps me a lot. How is the proc stun working out for you? Do you find it up enough to be useful in pvp? I think at rank six, I'll have enough survivability to work with to drop blackout and get the stun and disarm. I really love this combo, because it has so many tools. I have about 500 valor and I still get globaled by warriors almost intstantly without my cooldowns though with my current gear.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Adrenalyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deutschbag View Post
    How do these compare to other PvP souls? Is BD only viable with those 3 other souls? What about with RS?

    I'm fairly new, so I apologize if the answers seem obvious.
    The reason I say "viable" is because no one plays Bladedancer in pvp or goes this deep into the soul. It's either Assassin, Nightblade or Marksmen if you want to be competitive. But, after playing around with these 2 builds I feel they can really be a competitive alternative for rogues in pvp.

    Quote Originally Posted by altaholic View Post
    I'm really enjoying my 44 NB/ 22 RS. I've also enjoyed a 35 NB, 16 RS, 15 Inf. I've always tried to figure out bladedancer builds as well, but that damn deep NB keeps taunting me. Blackout will ruin me, it's so hard to live without. Like you, i'm a specaholic. Your about to cost me a few plat, i'll try them out.
    Yea after playing deep NB for so long it's kinda hard to give up, but I like to try different specs all the time and try to make different things work, instead of just going always going with the cookie cutter specs out there. Keeps the game fresh when I get tired of playing the same thing all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by bleachx View Post
    Hey there Adrenalyn. I tried out the NB one a little while back and had some fun with it. It was a bit different but pretty much the same thing. I was running a 44/22 with rs before hand and after 1.3 it just didn't pack the punch I needed it to so I wanted to try out the deadly boost with NB. Man this build hits hard. Dusk till dawn after a deadly dance had huge ticks not to mention when you ebon fury its perfect with the deadly dance. Dusk, dusk, dusk, deadly hits really friging hard lol its a fun one. It definitely has action on downing those bunny hoping full healers heh. I did miss having blackout though. I found my self really wishing I had it quite often when fighting warriors and when sins would open up on me. Flash of steel and sprint made up for the loss of warps that rs had just fine when it came to catching kiters. If I was to run this again I think dropping blade fineness and going with quick reflexes for the dodge might be better just to help for when someone gets the drop on ya. Oh and to the guy asking about mixing bd with rs I was actually going to try playing with something like that. I like how in rs there's no cool down on stalker phase and guardian phase so you can switch on the fly so if you mixed bd/rs you could have like a tank that could pop stalker phase and burst with bd lol I duno if it would be good at all but its something I wanted to play around with for the lol's. I was thinking something like this maybe http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...o0d.EIxIzRdook oh and defer death is lol's in a duel haha.
    btw I know I already said this in your other thread but very nice video gratz on it.
    At first, on paper, I didn't think BD and NB would work well together. But after playing around with it, it works out pretty well. Plus it's nice to have a heal debuff and ranged abilities in a heavy Bladedancer spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vamoosh View Post
    I've had some really odd results with Disassemble and Weapon Barrage.
    I started PVP months ago with high BD specifically for Disassemble, Weapon Barrage and Disengage 28 BD/32 Sin/6 Rng and either it used to get purged so quick it wasn't noticable, it didn't interrupt in the case of Barrage or it just plain didn't work, so I moved on and went lower BD.
    How are they working for you?
    The problems you noticed sound like the results of diminishing returns. Maybe you had Disengage macroed to your combo building macro or opened up Paralyzing Strike and tried to follow up with other abilities that would trigger DRs? Disassemble is working great for me. I use this instead of a stun vs melee. People will use Break free for stuns. But i haven't seen one person use Break Free for Disassemble. They pretty much just stand there disarmed for 6 seconds for the most part. You really have to manage your abilities properly when playing BD/Sin to make the most out of them because of the DRs. And with Anathema as your only heal debuff, you only get 1 chance to take out a healer. The BD/Sin spec I posted is a lot harder to play but can be successful if played right.

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    Rift Disciple Adrenalyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrower View Post
    Yeah, I'm the one who suggested the 44nb/22bd spec in your nightblade thread. I thought about going more in bladedancer, but I'm only halfway to rank 5, so blackout helps me a lot. How is the proc stun working out for you? Do you find it up enough to be useful in pvp? I think at rank six, I'll have enough survivability to work with to drop blackout and get the stun and disarm. I really love this combo, because it has so many tools. I have about 500 valor and I still get globaled by warriors almost intstantly without my cooldowns though with my current gear.
    The proc stun is up alot. You want to use Disassemble vs melee though. It has a 1 min cd though, so that's when you use the proc stun. To beat warriors in the BD/NB spec you can also use Dusk to Dawn for the 4 sec root and 5 combo points. Disarm them and pop side steps if you need to.

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    Telaran Vamoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrenalyn View Post
    The problems you noticed sound like the results of diminishing returns. Maybe you had Disengage macroed to your combo building macro or opened up Paralyzing Strike and tried to follow up with other abilities that would trigger DRs? Disassemble is working great for me. I use this instead of a stun vs melee. People will use Break free for stuns. But i haven't seen one person use Break Free for Disassemble. They pretty much just stand there disarmed for 6 seconds for the most part. You really have to manage your abilities properly when playing BD/Sin to make the most out of them because of the DRs. And with Anathema as your only heal debuff, you only get 1 chance to take out a healer. The BD/Sin spec I posted is a lot harder to play but can be successful if played right.
    I used to macro in Disengage as I never use Paralyzing Strike. Disassemble was just plain buggy but this was probably 2 patches ago so could have changed. May give it a go again for a bit of a laugh as like you think BD is the best soul.

  10. #10
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    I saw that NB/BD spec in your other thread and tested it last night, and I think it's very good. I used a 51 NB / 15 Inf before that, and I have less trouble killing warriors or sins with this spec. Less survivability without blackout however, but eh, can't have everything.

    One question though, does dodge not work on ranged attacks ? I haven't tested in a duel yet, but yesterday when fighting a warrior I used side steps and all his ranged attacks passed through, so I guess you can't dodge ranged attacks. If it is the case, it seems weird considering you can parry/block ranged attack (well, warriors can).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrenalyn View Post
    The proc stun is up alot. You want to use Disassemble vs melee though. It has a 1 min cd though, so that's when you use the proc stun. To beat warriors in the BD/NB spec you can also use Dusk to Dawn for the 4 sec root and 5 combo points. Disarm them and pop side steps if you need to.
    What "proc" stun are you talking about?

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sphax View Post
    I saw that NB/BD spec in your other thread and tested it last night, and I think it's very good. I used a 51 NB / 15 Inf before that, and I have less trouble killing warriors or sins with this spec. Less survivability without blackout however, but eh, can't have everything.

    One question though, does dodge not work on ranged attacks ? I haven't tested in a duel yet, but yesterday when fighting a warrior I used side steps and all his ranged attacks passed through, so I guess you can't dodge ranged attacks. If it is the case, it seems weird considering you can parry/block ranged attack (well, warriors can).
    You can definitely dodge ranged attacks, I had a Rogue dodge my Marksmen shots before. Was it Paragon or Riftblade ranged attacks?
    Quote Originally Posted by pro View Post
    Rogues are completly fine to be honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by pro
    please stop qq about nerfs because i promise if u keep it up rift will shut down because they have no subribers and we will have wasted our money on a failed game simply because everyone was acting like little kids because they couldnt faceroll anyone and it actually took effort to kill them

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sphax View Post
    One question though, does dodge not work on ranged attacks ? I haven't tested in a duel yet, but yesterday when fighting a warrior I used side steps and all his ranged attacks passed through, so I guess you can't dodge ranged attacks. If it is the case, it seems weird considering you can parry/block ranged attack (well, warriors can).
    Many warrior attacks (especially those in Riftblade) deal non-physical damage and can't be dodged/blocked/parried. However, anything that can be parried, can also be blocked or dodged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaxmax View Post
    What "proc" stun are you talking about?
    Disengage. 26 point BD tree abililty.

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    i use 26bd/25asn/15infil mostly when I have a pocket healer in small group pvp. 15infil is all but mandatory for group pvp. 32asn/21bd/13infil for solo world pvp since slip is the best survival button rogues have when alone. Both specs have 0 range but offer a snare, sprint, and flash of steel to ensure you are not kited to death.

    the 26bd build you can 1v1 dps warrior w/o having to rely on bleeding them out. 3 stuns and disarm all share the same DR so it is about knowing what to use when. In stead of going up the DPS tree i went for grip like steel since being disarmed is the only real weakness i found this build having. the 15th point in Infil is kinda up for grabs, and i just it into brush as a side thought.

    I'm only rank 5 with under 700 valor yet but full rank 6 and I will use this build for more solo pvp as well. 1v1 vs clerics though anathema doesn't seem to be as effective as an assassinate fully buffed by deadly dance, blade tempo, and slip.


    EDIT** zam isnt linking it with the last 3 points in infil correctly. so it's 2/2 grip like steel and 1/1 brush it off.
    Last edited by kyth; 07-13-2011 at 05:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrenalyn View Post
    The proc stun is up alot. You want to use Disassemble vs melee though. It has a 1 min cd though, so that's when you use the proc stun. To beat warriors in the BD/NB spec you can also use Dusk to Dawn for the 4 sec root and 5 combo points. Disarm them and pop side steps if you need to.
    Yeah, I'm familiar with the Dusk to Dawn trick for warriors. I always try to get deadly dance going first, if possible. I figured the disarm would be a good tradeoff for blackout in a 1v1 situation, but in group fights, blackout is pretty clutch. Also, popping sprint and blackout at the same time to escape a bunch of people is pretty amusing in it's own right.

    On another note, I tried your bd/sin/inf build for my stealth build, and I landed an assassinate crit for like 4100 on a shard carrier in whitefall. Granted, they had the debuff, but needless to say I don't think either of us were expecting it, hah.

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