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Thread: MM/Rng pvp

  1. #1
    General of Telara Virchow's Avatar
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    Default MM/Rng pvp

    Copied and pasted for the cheap seats.

    I'm sorry you had to endure so many trolls before I had a chance to respond to your question.

    I am not the greatest PvPer. I have been known to keyboard turn, backpedal and occasionally with click. I also tend to be at the top or top 3 of WFs in KB and damage done, although we know this isn't the real answer as to how positively a player impacts the WFs they're in. Am I full R6? No, but I do have the gun and a few pieces. This build has been rocking since I was R4, though.

    As for the efficacy of this build, I invite anyone on Dayblind/Deepstrike WF servers (which happens to be the highest population cluster if I'm correct) that I have had the pleasure to fight with, to chime in with comments or SS of how I do with my build. Do I have video and SS? Maybe....

    Here it is, how to roll the 51MM/15RNG/0INF in WFs:

    Buffs: Put up your predatory right away at spawn. Make sure you have Blood Thirsty. You should be reaping some nice healing from it. You drop your pedestal at one of 3 times,
    1) 5 seconds before engage, or
    2) at point of maximum potential vantage (rock on Codex), or
    3) Right before you open up IHR. You always drop a pedestal before IHR or refresh the buff before you launch it.

    The pedestal is 30% increase to your damage, it's a big deal, and it'll last the duration of your IHR so that you can hunt with movement freely (and you will move, because once you start, they start scurrying).

    Targets with cooldowns ready:
    Rogue in Distance/On another target: In my opinion, your primary target because you get to ruin many days with this. Target the rogue of your choice (preferably one far away from cover or attacking your healers) hit with Barbed Shot. Look at their buffs and throw eradicate if they have any dodge/immunity/FB or damage reducing buffs up. Pedestal/IHR and should have a dead rogue. If they throw up Blackout or immunity on your run, Eradicate it and continue with the onslaught. If it's another MM, first look for the IHR buff on them, if it's up purge it if it looks like it's not buried. If you purge it within 3 seconds, you'll generally win. If it's buried, then it's a race to drop him with your IHR straight up.

    Rogue on you: Very common. If they open with Paralyzing, hit Break Free and one of your getaway movement buffs. Drop a Crippling Shot on them with a Barbed Shot, and open with IHR...you can win some, but realize that the stealth rogues will dedicate themselves to dropping MMs...just the way it is. They're a strong counter to our class.

    Mage: Hit your target with an Eradicate first off. Look at their buffs and consider dropping another eradicate or 2 or 3 before opening with pedestal/IHR. If they start something with a cast-time you thank the maker and hit them with Deaden followed by killer volley of IHR. You are the hard counter to Pyros, congrats. A well played Dom can take you out, but then again, they can drop nearly anyone (btw, if you see a dom break into the multiple shadows, you can make them all disappear if you spam Eradicate the Dom). If you are fighting a Dom, chances are you have Storm Shackle on you, don't run around. But you have to kill them. Pedestal/IHR and Eradicate when you have to. If you have a choice of mage target, choose the one farthest from cover.

    Warrior in distance: Eradicate is always your opener. Sounds weird, but trust me, if you strip a warrior of everything you can, they generally don't global people, and that tends to piss them off. Eradicate completely, Crippling Shot, Barbed Shot, Piercing Shot, and IHR him down. Eradicate the inevitable HoTs that will start popping on him.

    Warrior on you: Sucks to be you. If you have wings, Pedestal/IHR and just race to kill him before he kills you, don't even bother running. If you don't have wings, Eradicate and kite as best you can with Crippling Shot, Piercing Shot, Strafe, RFS. Hold on IHR if you think he's going to just drop you and you don't have heals. If you have heals, just treat like he's distance.

    Cleric: If this is a R5/R6, this is a team effort. Your job on the team is stripping. Hit with Piercing, Crippling, and Barbed shots, then spam Eradicate Nonstop. If a warrior does manage to jump them, hit your pedestal/IHR and drop them (chances are hopefully that warrior is packing lingering wounds). If you see them sprout dark wings, immediately eradicate them. If they are lower ranks, if you can sometimes drop them after stripping them. If you decide that you're going to stress the main healer during a battle, you are serving a purpose because they will be spamming their buffs/heals on themselves and not the warrior/MM which gives your team a window of opportunity they may or may not be able to utilize.

    If anyone is on a bridge/on a ledge, please knock them off with Repelling Shot.

    A place where this spec shines though, is after the IHR and Reload are blown (the other 1 minute and 30 seconds of the fighting). Use your Eradicate as above. Drop your pedestal, and start with Strafe and Rapid Fire Shot. Fire a Shadow Fire. Then hit with Barbed, Crippling, Piercing, Quick Shot, and Headshots/Hasted Shots or Deadeyes depending on how mobile you have to be. You'll be surprised what you can do during the other 1 min 30 seconds thanks to the 15RNG that so many short sighted people disparage.

    The strengths of this build are:
    1) By R4 you become a cannon on the field. By R6 you are THE cannon on the field.
    2) A key counter to many other classes and builds thanks to Eradicate. Eradicate changes whole battles. No lie. And you can do this at R1-3. Don't leave home without it
    3) Believe me when I tell you, that you will cut through all classes like a scythe by R6 (and for me starting at R4 weaps). You will spend most of your time at the top or in the top 3 of your teams KB and Damage.
    4) You will become a real deciding factor in the Warfront.

    The weaknesses of this build are
    1) Survivability. You aren't disappearing anytime soon. Most warriors can take you if they get in close, especially at early ranks
    2) You will make enemies. The first time you Eradicate and down a warrior who was trying to kill your cleric, mow through a mage, strip all the immunities from a NB or strip an Improved Hit and Run from an MM and proceed to Rick-Roll him/her, you will have new fans, and they don't want an autograph. You will end up with a number over your head. You also won't be able to hide from them.
    3) The absolute spike during your IHR will be slightly lower than with the 38MM/sin builds. You also won't have Eradicate, which, I personally believe, is the centerpiece of the MM build.

    There you go, the secrets to my personal successes in WFs (and I have been very successful). Reasonable tactics for people with like-minded focus/values.

    To the haters insisting on stealth and cooldowns to survive, to the haters that need the highest spike damage at the cost of Eradicate, and just plain to the haters, I hope to see you out there soon.

    Troll on...

    Virchow Out!
    Last edited by Virchow; 07-11-2011 at 03:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    Great thread.

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    Telaran
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    I have this spec just for eradicate, but I can't seem to give up my 40MM/11NB/15 inf. I'm R4 and am loving this spec. I really enjoy being able to stealth and have anethema to help burst down the clerics/mages/rogues. Can you give me some #s on what your IHR DE's crit for? I've also been pondering 40MM/11R/15 inf to get the crit/ap (and I have the +100ap SF greater) which would basically be 5%crit +150ap but losing 15% dmg and stealth.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Fiala's Avatar
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    Pedestal on the cliff hanging over the Codex is not a good idea. You're a target for any mounted warriors charging up on the other side as they can simply jump in the air and BullRush you in mid-air. (known as the "Superman" techinque) If he has Way of the Mountain on and Thunderous Kick..you'll be right down among the cauldron around the flag.

    And second, high Rank Paragons are difficult to kite due to the abundance of range attacks. Hurricane and Tempest is particularly nasty. If they have Bend Like a Reed running, they'll be deflecting a good number of your shots and most likely either charging or fleet of footing on you. It's VERY difficult to get away from a paragon from personal experience - from 20m and in because you have 16m to 10m to operate with at best at keeping them away.
    Last edited by Fiala; 07-12-2011 at 02:31 PM.

  5. #5
    General of Telara Virchow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega42 View Post
    I have this spec just for eradicate, but I can't seem to give up my 40MM/11NB/15 inf. I'm R4 and am loving this spec. I really enjoy being able to stealth and have anethema to help burst down the clerics/mages/rogues. Can you give me some #s on what your IHR DE's crit for? I've also been pondering 40MM/11R/15 inf to get the crit/ap (and I have the +100ap SF greater) which would basically be 5%crit +150ap but losing 15% dmg and stealth.
    Depends on who you're shooting and who is with you. With R6 bow, self only buffs and no or little valor, I'd say ES at 800ish. Around 2500ish DS? With group several buffs on and target debuffs, around 1k ES and 3ksomething DS? I've seen my ES drop to around 200 or less on R6 clerics at certain inopportune times.
    Last edited by Virchow; 07-12-2011 at 03:00 PM.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virchow View Post
    Depends on who you're shooting and who is with you. With R6 bow, self only buffs and no or little valor, I'd say ES at 800ish. Around 2500ish DS? With group several buffs on and target debuffs, around 1k ES and 3ksomething DS? I've seen my ES drop to around 200 or less on R6 clerics at certain inopportune times.
    Ya, I have Verdant Archbow and pretty similar. I found for some reason that even though I had 1250 AP with wings I wasn't hitting for much harder than I was in the MM/NB/INF spec and that if I was in that spec It'd been more, though of course I'd of been at 1100AP and not 1250. That being said in different Codexes I always seemed to do better in the MM/NB spec doing higher dmg and more KBs/less deaths, though that very well could be do to some of the fail groups I was in, and or my getting used to the slight differences in bar positioning. Anyway, I think I will stick with 40MM/11NB/15inf unless Eradicate is needed. I mean really anathema really does a good job with HNR that I don't need eradicate, at least on non clerics.

    You should give this spec a try and see how u find it compares.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiala View Post
    Pedestal on the cliff hanging over the Codex is not a good idea. You're a target for any mounted warriors charging up on the other side as they can simply jump in the air and BullRush you in mid-air. (known as the "Superman" techinque) If he has Way of the Mountain on and Thunderous Kick..you'll be right down among the cauldron around the flag.

    And second, high Rank Paragons are difficult to kite due to the abundance of range attacks. Hurricane and Tempest is particularly nasty. If they have Bend Like a Reed running, they'll be deflecting a good number of your shots and most likely either charging or fleet of footing on you. It's VERY difficult to get away from a paragon from personal experience - from 20m and in because you have 16m to 10m to operate with at best at keeping them away.
    Ya I find warriors to be the most annoying right now. Sins I just laugh at now as I break free and kite, but the warriors are just so lame. I've become so frustrated with them that I find myself just focusing on them to piss them off as they aren't use to being the first ones attacked, then kiting them as best I can from there heals.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Chomag's Avatar
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    So is this build for the solo pvp-er or does it require at least 3 clerics to keep up ?

    I really don't know how can ppl play mm/sin. I find the lack of Crippling Shot to be a deal breaker. But then, if I remember WoW, 99% of hunters were just turrets: great at sitting and shooting, deadmeat if melee got in their faces. Only like 1 every 10 bgs was an actual threat to my dk due to his actually functional brain.
    Last edited by Chomag; 07-13-2011 at 11:27 AM.

  9. #9
    General of Telara Virchow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega42 View Post
    Ya, I have Verdant Archbow and pretty similar. I found for some reason that even though I had 1250 AP with wings I wasn't hitting for much harder than I was in the MM/NB/INF spec and that if I was in that spec It'd been more, though of course I'd of been at 1100AP and not 1250. That being said in different Codexes I always seemed to do better in the MM/NB spec doing higher dmg and more KBs/less deaths, though that very well could be do to some of the fail groups I was in, and or my getting used to the slight differences in bar positioning. Anyway, I think I will stick with 40MM/11NB/15inf unless Eradicate is needed. I mean really anathema really does a good job with HNR that I don't need eradicate, at least on non clerics.

    You should give this spec a try and see how u find it compares.
    I'll certainly give it a run here sometime, but, as I discussed above, Eradicate is the cornerstone of the 51MM/15RNG's effectiveness if used appropriately. For straight up damage spikes, the 38MM/sin/NB seems to pound the hardest (although I tend to beat alot of these thanks to Eradicate). I'm open to try new builds, though. That Cuisanart build is one of the greatest finds in these forums for PvE quest/money grinding.

  10. #10
    General of Telara Virchow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    So is this build for the solo pvp-er or does it require at least 3 clerics to keep up ?

    I really don't know how can ppl play mm/sin. I find the lack of Crippling Shot to be a deal breaker. But then, if I remember WoW, 99% of hunters were just turrets: great at sitting and shooting, deadmeat if melee got in their faces. Only like 1 every 10 bgs was an actual threat to my dk due to his actually functional brain.
    I PUG and premade. I PUGed to Rank 5 basically. I tend to premade more now, but often PUG. Either way, this build shines brightest in a crowd. Not a dueling spec.

    A MM with a pocket healer is pretty sickening (i.e. Qoi in the Deepstrike/Dayblind cluster). In a Codex the other night in the premade queue, ran into a MM (Sepi?) with 3 pocket healers and a sin/nb tagalong just capping the bottom three flags while sending the rest of the team nonstop to Codex. Pretty nasty and effective.

  11. #11
    General of Telara Virchow's Avatar
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    Bumped because people apparently asking about it.

    It seems to hold with 1.4, but note that in 5 on 5 R6 premade action you kinda turn into more of an Eradicabot. Also, with the changes to Anathema, you can consider going with 15 Inf at the appropriate rank for heal debuff and Cleanse Soul.
    Last edited by Virchow; 08-05-2011 at 07:38 AM.

  12. #12
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    ive played MM from the start, i first went with 38mm /17sin/11 inf, then went too 38mm/15inf/13nb, and now i have the 100ap bonus greater essence from shadow fire, i use 38mm/14rng/12inf and this spec hits by far the hardest with alot more survivability.. only thing is im missing the heal debuff but atm its not needed on any class but R6 cleric
    Pure Class


    Harshmallows

  13. #13
    Telaran Mar1boro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega42 View Post
    I have this spec just for eradicate, but I can't seem to give up my 40MM/11NB/15 inf. I'm R4 and am loving this spec. I really enjoy being able to stealth and have anethema to help burst down the clerics/mages/rogues. Can you give me some #s on what your IHR DE's crit for? I've also been pondering 40MM/11R/15 inf to get the crit/ap (and I have the +100ap SF greater) which would basically be 5%crit +150ap but losing 15% dmg and stealth.
    eradicate is better then ur boast to finishers and hell fire blades proc, i promise.
    been using 44mm 7nb 15inf, since i hit r4 (cleric killer build)
    Last edited by Mar1boro; 08-05-2011 at 07:55 AM.

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar1boro View Post
    eradicate is better then ur boast to finishers and hell fire blades proc, i promise.
    been using 44mm 7nb 15inf, since i hit r4 (cleric killer build)
    With your 7 points in NB you are losing overall damage to gain Hellfire blades and a stealth. The only way this is a good idea is if you never put down your pedestal, but then you are losing 30% damage not 20%.

  15. #15
    Telaran Mar1boro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahrken View Post
    With your 7 points in NB you are losing overall damage to gain Hellfire blades and a stealth. The only way this is a good idea is if you never put down your pedestal, but then you are losing 30% damage not 20%.
    u dont use a pedestal in pvp

    and taking away ANY buffs, is better then 5% dam proc

    its the truth my man

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