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Thread: MM in PvP...what am I doing wrong?

  1. #1
    Ascendant Landru's Avatar
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    Default MM in PvP...what am I doing wrong?

    Ok, I don't want to play in the hitbox.

    Been melee, done melee, just don't feel like doing melee.

    I asked for and got some advice on MM builds, but I'm struggling in the WFs. Using a 51/15/0 MM/Ranger/Inf build. Only R2 and halfway to R3 so I don't have top end gear yet but...and I'm sure it's me somehow...against a clothie I had just hit with piercing shot for the armor debuff and who had no bubble; fully loaded and critted deadeye for for 1081? (The rotation leading to it was piercing shot/imp hit and run/empowered/empowered/bullseye/deadeye...was not on a pedestal since I was on the run in open field)

    And that seems to be pretty normal for me at the moment in the WFs...feeling like all I can do is maybe catch someone not looking when my CDs are up and maybe get lucky against a cloth wearer. IF Deaden sticks and I get an interrupt/silence in there. Maybe.

    Are my expectations that MM should be cloth-wearer nighmares too high?

    If I am going to continue insisting on not playing my rogue in the hitbox should I be thinking a heavy sab build for ranged and burst?

    Current stats, etc...Dex 354/AP 347/PC 494 using a 30.2 dps bow
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant

  2. #2
    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landru View Post
    Ok, I don't want to play in the hitbox.

    Been melee, done melee, just don't feel like doing melee.

    I asked for and got some advice on MM builds, but I'm struggling in the WFs. Using a 51/15/0 MM/Ranger/Inf build. Only R2 and halfway to R3 so I don't have top end gear yet but...and I'm sure it's me somehow...against a clothie I had just hit with piercing shot for the armor debuff and who had no bubble; fully loaded and critted deadeye for for 1081? (The rotation leading to it was piercing shot/imp hit and run/empowered/empowered/bullseye/deadeye...was not on a pedestal since I was on the run in open field)

    And that seems to be pretty normal for me at the moment in the WFs...feeling like all I can do is maybe catch someone not looking when my CDs are up and maybe get lucky against a cloth wearer. IF Deaden sticks and I get an interrupt/silence in there. Maybe.

    Are my expectations that MM should be cloth-wearer nighmares too high?

    If I am going to continue insisting on not playing my rogue in the hitbox should I be thinking a heavy sab build for ranged and burst?

    Current stats, etc...Dex 354/AP 347/PC 494 using a 30.2 dps bow
    Few mistakes:
    51 MM, Ranger

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    The guide in my signature might help you. I made it specifically for the new MM's (pre-p4).

    You might also want to try out Terk's Guide

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
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    The weapon is holding you back quite a bit. Plus, clothie or not there might have been some valor and/or cooldown use there. I suggest you give those two guides linked above a look and do some RD runs or pray a better bow is on the AH for cheap.
    Quote Originally Posted by pro View Post
    Rogues are completly fine to be honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by pro
    please stop qq about nerfs because i promise if u keep it up rift will shut down because they have no subribers and we will have wasted our money on a failed game simply because everyone was acting like little kids because they couldnt faceroll anyone and it actually took effort to kill them

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
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    51 MM 15 anything is rather gimpy, especially when your 15 points are Ranger.

    In my opinion, the two best specs for PvP MM are 40MM/26NB/0Inf or 44MM/22Sin/0Inf.

    The former offers the best burst dps and has decent sustained dps and some defensive CDs for when you are being hit hard. The latter has Eradicate, perma stealth, hits pretty hard in its own right and is generally better at taking on healers than the former.

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara Raiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landru View Post
    Ok, I don't want to play in the hitbox.

    Been melee, done melee, just don't feel like doing melee.

    I asked for and got some advice on MM builds, but I'm struggling in the WFs. Using a 51/15/0 MM/Ranger/Inf build. Only R2 and halfway to R3 so I don't have top end gear yet but...and I'm sure it's me somehow...against a clothie I had just hit with piercing shot for the armor debuff and who had no bubble; fully loaded and critted deadeye for for 1081? (The rotation leading to it was piercing shot/imp hit and run/empowered/empowered/bullseye/deadeye...was not on a pedestal since I was on the run in open field)

    And that seems to be pretty normal for me at the moment in the WFs...feeling like all I can do is maybe catch someone not looking when my CDs are up and maybe get lucky against a cloth wearer. IF Deaden sticks and I get an interrupt/silence in there. Maybe.

    Are my expectations that MM should be cloth-wearer nighmares too high?

    If I am going to continue insisting on not playing my rogue in the hitbox should I be thinking a heavy sab build for ranged and burst?

    Current stats, etc...Dex 354/AP 347/PC 494 using a 30.2 dps bow
    It's pretty risky to go 51p ANYTHING in a PvP spec. I'd suggest going down to 44 MM and spending the rest of your points elsewhere.
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  7. #7
    Rift Chaser
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    I tried a 51 point marks build and I came to the same conclusion. It has too many wasted points that could be better spent elsewhere. I actually use that same build the other poster said, 40mm/26nb/0inf. It's pretty decent. I see more people specced marks/sin, but I just have a thing for nightblade specs.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    Pay attention to your surroundings.
    Cloths that are not chloro are good targets, other range-rogues are targets.
    Clerics... i don't want to mention, and tank warriors don't even bother.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    the 44 22 MarkSin spec works nicely

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    All the other specs listed are fine, but in those specs you are simply just more DPS. It takes more than just DPS to take out many classes.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...oGogook.xx0M0c

    Try this spec, it is less CD dependent, still has nice damage, and the utility you bring to the table with your poisons. Shooting Fell Blades and Cloudy Poison from a distance puts your team at an advantage. Using Anathema on a Healer along with Fell Blade procs almost insures their demise.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Larrs's Avatar
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    Cool imho

    everyone i know wants to be top dog in damage in warfronts; which is why most times what ever team i am on loses, i never shoot for top damage in any warfront never go after most killing blows or top heals.
    i for a fact have three main spec for my rogues in warfronts all include the bladedancer soul, y ? u have a 10 sec cd on a silence interupt and if u have enough in blade dancer u have a sprint and a charge all my rogues use this to the extreme (MM-BD-Rift) (Sin-BD-Rift) (BD-MM-Rift)
    as i said i am not trying to kill everyone with 3 hits i give my team the support it needs and with these trees casters and healers hate me even more

    Now I Know Why Some Animals Eat Their Young

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrin View Post
    All the other specs listed are fine, but in those specs you are simply just more DPS. It takes more than just DPS to take out many classes.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...oGogook.xx0M0c

    Try this spec, it is less CD dependent, still has nice damage, and the utility you bring to the table with your poisons. Shooting Fell Blades and Cloudy Poison from a distance puts your team at an advantage. Using Anathema on a Healer along with Fell Blade procs almost insures their demise.
    ^This and 38MM/15inf/13NB were what I used to run in WFs.

    The 38MM lands more kb/d but I felt the later had a greater impact on the outcome of battles (AOE fellblades was awesome).

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Weakest's Avatar
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    Going to suck until you get more AP/Crit due to valor and this being a gear based MMO.

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara
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    What are you doing wrong? You have your specs all wrong! You should be MM/NB or MM/Sin. Check all the PvP threads... they have MM either partnered with NB or Sin for a reason (answer: it works very well).

  15. #15
    General of Telara Virchow's Avatar
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    I'm sorry you had to endure so many trolls before I had a chance to respond to your question.

    I am not the greatest PvPer. I have been known to keyboard turn, backpedal and occasionally with click. I also tend to be at the top or top 3 of WFs in KB and damage done, although we know this isn't the real answer as to how positively a player impacts the WFs they're in. Am I full R6? No, but I do have the gun and a few pieces. This build has been rocking since I was R4, though.

    As for the efficacy of this build, I invite anyone on Dayblind/Deepstrike WF servers (which happens to be the highest population cluster if I'm correct) that I have had the pleasure to fight with, to chime in with comments or SS of how I do with my build. Do I have video and SS? Maybe....

    Here it is, how to roll the 51MM/15RNG/0INF in WFs:

    Buffs: Put up your predatory right away at spawn. Make sure you have Blood Thirsty. You should be reaping some nice healing from it. You drop your pedestal at one of 3 times,
    1) 5 seconds before engage, or
    2) at point of maximum potential vantage (rock on Codex), or
    3) Right before you open up IHR. You always drop a pedestal before IHR or refresh the buff before you launch it.

    The pedestal is 30% increase to your damage, it's a big deal, and it'll last the duration of your IHR so that you can hunt with movement freely (and you will move, because once you start they start scurrying).

    Targets with cooldowns ready:
    Rogue in Distance/On another target: In my opinion, your primary target because you get to ruin many days with this. Target the rogue of your choice (preferably one far away from cover or attacking your healers) hit with Barbed Shot. Look at their buffs and throw eradicate if they have any dodge/immunity/FB or damage reducing buffs up. Pedestal/IHR and should have a dead rogue. If they throw up Blackout or immunity on your run, Eradicate it and continue with the onslaught. If it's another MM, first look for the IHR buff on them, if it's up purge it if it looks like it's not buried. If you purge it within 3 seconds, you'll generally win. If it's buried, then it's a race to drop him with your IHR straight up.

    Rogue on you: Very common. If they open with Paralyzing, hit Break Free and one of your getaway movement buffs. Drop an Ensnaring Shot on them with a Barbed Shot, and open with IHR...you can win some, but realize that the stealth rogues will dedicate themselves to dropping MMs...just the way it is. They're a strong counter to our class.

    Mage: Hit your target with an Eradicate first off. Look at their buffs and consider dropping another eradicate or 2 or 3 before opening with pedestal/IHR. If they start something with a cast-time you thank the maker and hit them with Deaden followed by killer volley of IHR. You are the hard counter to Pyros, congrats. A well played Dom can take you out, but then again, they can drop nearly anyone (btw, if you see a dom break into the multiple shadows, you can make them all disappear if you spam Eradicate the Dom). If you are fighting a Dom, chance are you have Storm Shackle on you, don't run around. But you have to kill them. Pedestal/IHR and Eradicate when you have to. If you have a choice of mage target, choose the one farthest from cover.

    Warrior in distance: Eradicate is always your opener. Sounds weird, but trust me, if you strip a warrior of everything you can, they generally don't global people, and that tends to piss them off. Eradicate completely, Crippling Shot, Barbed Shot, Piercing Shot, and IHR him down. Eradicate the inevitable HoTs that will start popping on him.

    Warrior on you: Sucks to be you. If you have wings, Pedestal/IHR and just race to kill him before he kills you, don't even bother running. If you don't have wings, Eradicate and kite as best you can with Crippling Shot, Piercing Shot, Strafe, RFS. Hold on IHR if you think he's going to just drop you and you don't have heals. If you have heals, just treat like he's distance.

    Cleric: If this is a R5/R6, this is a team effort. Your job on the team is stripping. Hit with Piercing, Crippling, and Barbed shots, then spam Eradicate Nonstop. If a warrior does manage to jump them, hit your pedestal/IHR and drop them (chances are hopefully that warrior is packing lingering wounds) If you seem them sprout dark wings, immediately eradicate them. If they are lower ranks, if you can sometimes drop them after stripping them. If you decide that you're going to stress the main healer during a battle, you are serving a purpose because they will be spamming their buffs/heals on themselves and not the warrior/MM which gives your team a window of opportunity they may or may not be able to utilize.

    If anyone is on a bridge/on a ledge, please knock them off with Repelling Shot.

    A place where this spec shines though, is after the IHR and Reload are blown (the other 1 minute and 30 seconds of the fighting). Use your Eradicate as above. Drop your pedestal, and start with Strafe and Rapid Fire Shot. Fire a Shadow Fire. Then hit with Barbed, Crippling, Piercing, Quick Shot, and Headshots/Hasted Shots or Deadeyes depending on how mobile you have to be. You'll be surprised what you can do during the other 1 min 30 seconds thanks to the 15RNG that so many short sighted people disparage.

    The strengths of this build are:
    1) By R4 you become a cannon on the field. By R6 you are THE cannon on the field.
    2) A key counter to many other classes and builds thanks to Eradicate. Eradicate changes whole battles. No lie. And you can do this at R1-3. Don't leave home without it
    3) Believe me when I tell you, that you will cut through all classes like a scythe by R6 (and for me starting at R4 weaps). You will spend most of your time at the top or in the top 3 of your teams KB and Damage.
    4) You will become a real deciding factor in the Warfront.

    The weaknesses of this build are
    1) Survivability. You are disappearing anytime soon. Most warriors can take you if they get in close, especially at early ranks
    2) You will make enemies. The first time you Eradicate and down a warrior who was trying to kill your cleric, mow through a mage, strip all the immunities from a NB or strip an Improved Hit and Run from an MM and proceed to Rick-Roll him/her, you will have new fans, and they don't want an autograph. You will end up with a number over your head. You also won't be able to hide from them.
    3) The absolute spike during your IHR will be slightly lower than with the 38MM/sin builds. You also won't have Eradicate, which, I personally believe, is the centerpiece of the MM build.

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