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Thread: Cleric / Healer & Mage Killing / Disrupting Spec = Khlepto Spec

  1. #1
    Telaran Shademade's Avatar
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    Default Cleric / Healer & Mage Killing / Disrupting Spec = Khlepto Spec

    I accidentally posted this on the Class Forums instead of here. I hoped the Mods would move it, but they haven't; so I am posting it here. Thanks.

    I am just shy of P6 (like 40k). I play a Rogue named Khelpto (was supposed to be Khlepto - don't ask... on Seastone PvP Server). I have run a ton of different specs in PvP. 51 Assassin 15 Inf and 0 Ranger is my go-to. I also use a NB / Assassin / BD spec that works really well, too. Plus a number of other specs including Bard. However, none of those specs worked very well against Clerics, ChlorLocks and other Mana users that have high Valor and or Healing Specs.

    Let me first preface this by saying I do not read these boards a great deal. I imagine there are a number of specs that are for killing mana users - and there could be one exactly like the one I have below - or there could be others that are better. I am saying this, and admitting this, so that people understand I am not claiming this to be the best Cleric or Mage killing spec. I am having great success with it and thought I would share. Its as simple as that.

    Okay, as you can imagine NB is the biggest portion of the spec. Its 32 NB, 20 Infiltrator and 14 Bladedancer. See spec here:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...xx0R0b0x.i0dhz

    This spec takes full advantage of a number of abilities Rogues have for messing with Casters / Mana Users / Healers.

    You use both Fell Blades and Cloudy Poison for your weapon enchantments. They are excellent.

    I really only use 2 macros. Here they are:

    Anytime Spam Macro:

    #show ebon fury
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast reprisal
    cast anathema
    cast sleight of hand - STRIPS A BUFF
    cast weapon barrage
    cast ebon fury
    cast dusk strike
    cast twilight force
    cast primal strike
    cast fiery spike

    Finisher Macro:

    #show deadly strike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast deadly strike
    cast flame thrust

    Due to having 20 in Infiltrator you get perma stealth (but beware you stick out like a sore thumb to other stealthers as you do not have Assassin lower detection specced).

    So I open from Stealth when possible with Smother - which is the 5 sec silence - it has 20 meter range so you do not even have to be in melee range. You can alternatively use Dark Malady for more DPS power.

    I then spam Macro 1 until 5 points and then hit Macro 2 for the finisher. If its a caster then use Twilight Shelter to decrease damage taken. If its a Melee cleric you can use Side Steps. Also, you have Cleanse Soul from Infiltrator as well as Break Free; and if the fight goes wrong or someone adds you can use Dark Containment from NB - so survivability is pretty great. Also, your Macro 1 will snare with Twilight Force, and you can use Dusk to Dawn in a pinch.

    Lastly, you have Lost Hope for CC. Always Lost Hope / Incapacitate a Necro's Pet before popping. (Although I dueled an enemy Necro in IPP straight up without CC'n his pet and still won.)

    At P6 I will swap out Sprint from BD to get the level 21 Inf ability "Theft of Thought", which is a Mana drain Finisher.

    I have soloed a number of Clerics and Mages since trying this spec. Its still early yet, and I want to try dueling a friend in my guild on his Cleric as I have not been able to beat him with a DPS spec. But, so far the results have been great.

    As mentioned prior, I am P5 (almost P6) with all PvP gear and only T2 or P4 Weapons (29.2)

    You will not likely win any DPS or KB titles in any WF's with this spec. But, it is great for a Premade and or for helping your realm win a fight / WF by killing or disrupting healers or mages.

    Any additional suggestions are welcomed. Flames will be ignored.

    Have fun!
    Last edited by Shademade; 07-06-2011 at 05:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Champion Vaeranth's Avatar
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    Dear sweet Jesus...

    Anathema, Ebon Fury and Weapon Barrage all in a DPS spam macro.

    I hate this game and everyone who plays it.

    Edit: oh, and 20 points Inf...lol

  3. #3
    Telaran Shademade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeranth View Post
    Dear sweet Jesus...

    Anathema, Ebon Fury and Weapon Barrage all in a DPS spam macro.

    I hate this game and everyone who plays it.

    Edit: oh, and 20 points Inf...lol

    I understand your complaint about the macro - I could easily pull anathema, weapon barrage and ebon fury out - as well as sleight of hand. However, to call it a DPS macro is not accurate. You're not likely to DPS out of a wet bag with this spec. However, an interrupted, heal cut, and temporarily silenced Healer is a dead healer. Deadly Strike / Deadly Dance is enough DPS to win a fight verses a Caster that is impaired.

    Your complaint about 20 points in Inf is missing the point. Those 20 points provide a number of additions to the overall goal of the spec.

    I likely will take out Barrage simply because it will be Immune if you use Smother. However, I am not soloing so it's nice to have it all on one macro when switching targets. But, for soloing the macro is slow and duplicative.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    Your Anytime Spam Macro is a crime against Humanity. That's all I wanted to say.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    It's threads like this that make me want the macro system smashed into pieces in this game.
    This magnitude of bad should not be contained in one single macro.

    (Gear)

  6. #6
    Telaran Shademade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adnoz View Post
    It's threads like this that make me want the macro system smashed into pieces in this game.
    This magnitude of bad should not be contained in one single macro.
    Its funny, there are 3 of you now who state how crappy the macro is, but not one of you gives a reason. More importantly, the macro works - and it works very well. Strategically speaking, yes it makes more sense to pull out a number of the CD casts to use them at specific times as opposed to spamming them in one macro. That would be true if I was soloing. But, I am running in a group or with a group. I am changing targets and assisting a DPS War - at a frantic pace.

    I have also asked to duel a number of people and won 1v1 when all CDs were up. With these macros.

    I have no problem with criticism - but criticism without explanation serves little purpose.

  7. #7
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    Oh wow. I have no idea what your spec is since you dont understand how hyperlinks work on the internet (its okay, this whole hyper-text transfer protocol thing is new), but that macro is like... just wow.

    I assume its some BD thing? So your deadly dance is going to give you some double damage Sleight of Hand? Sounds like a really good use for it. Why don't you just throw your defensive CDs randomly into the macro as well? I think Cleanse Soul would be great right before Weapon Barrage.

  8. #8
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    Your macro is bad because:

    a) It almost instantly energy starves you with off the GCD madness.
    b) It pops all your cooldowns at the start for some reason. Why do you want to weapon barrage for dps when the point of this is killing casters? Save it for a freaking interrupt or like KB if they are at 200 hp and you are GCD capped. Sleight of hand should be used strategically and Ebon fury should not just be popped instantly.
    c) Why do you macro Deadly Strike with Flame Thrust? That's terrible. What if they are 1 meter out of range, you hit the macro and bam you just lost over 1k damage because you are using a bad macro. Manually finish so if they are close you can move half a foot and Deadly Strike.

    Also for your "strategy" I am confused. Against a cleric at full hp, do you know what they do when you silence them at 100% hp? They are ecstatic. They wait out the CC and instaheal themselves to full. You just started their DR on CC while they are at full health. Never smother a cleric healer at full health(on mages it's acceptable).

    Rather you should open with Dark Malady, close the distance using Fiery spike/Twilight Force and then Ebon Fury into Dusk Strike Spam and try to kill them with that. Though I would wait to pop Ebon Fury until after a 5 CP Deadly Strike personally. Save weapon barrage for when they are uber low or try to cast something. Sleight of hand should only be used strategically, when Ebon Fury is up it's not worth the time unless they have a very important buff and you feel lucky. Same with anathema, get them to half hp and then use it. If they have 3 rows of cleric hots, just give up or respec 44 marksmen, you aren't killing them.

    This would be my macro. Honestly I might take out Dusk Strike, but you probably want to leave it in.

    #show Twilight Force
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast reprisal
    cast dusk strike
    cast twilight force
    cast primal strike
    cast fiery spike

    As a final note, you would probably be better off going 21 assassin than infiltrator. It provides more +damage, fast stealth, expose weakness to strengthen your opening and foul play for stunning that cleric when you do get them to half hp finally. Better than a mana drain, that's for sure.
    Last edited by Equis; 07-07-2011 at 05:38 AM.

  9. #9
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    Dear sweet Jesus...

    Anathema, Ebon Fury and Weapon Barrage all in a DPS spam macro.

    I hate this game and everyone who plays it.
    this... 10char
    Last edited by Lobsterzilla; 07-07-2011 at 05:51 AM.
    http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/2862/lobstercopyq.jpg

  10. #10
    Telaran Shademade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equis View Post
    Your macro is bad because:

    a) It almost instantly energy starves you with off the GCD madness.
    b) It pops all your cooldowns at the start for some reason. Why do you want to weapon barrage for dps when the point of this is killing casters? Save it for a freaking interrupt or like KB if they are at 200 hp and you are GCD capped. Sleight of hand should be used strategically and Ebon fury should not just be popped instantly.
    c) Why do you macro Deadly Strike with Flame Thrust? That's terrible. What if they are 1 meter out of range, you hit the macro and bam you just lost over 1k damage because you are using a bad macro. Manually finish so if they are close you can move half a foot and Deadly Strike.

    Also for your "strategy" I am confused. Against a cleric at full hp, do you know what they do when you silence them at 100% hp? They are ecstatic. They wait out the CC and instaheal themselves to full. You just started their DR on CC while they are at full health. Never smother a cleric healer at full health(on mages it's acceptable).

    Rather you should open with Dark Malady, close the distance using Fiery spike/Twilight Force and then Ebon Fury into Dusk Strike Spam and try to kill them with that. Though I would wait to pop Ebon Fury until after a 5 CP Deadly Strike personally. Save weapon barrage for when they are uber low or try to cast something. Sleight of hand should only be used strategically, when Ebon Fury is up it's not worth the time unless they have a very important buff and you feel lucky. Same with anathema, get them to half hp and then use it. If they have 3 rows of cleric hots, just give up or respec 44 marksmen, you aren't killing them.

    This would be my macro. Honestly I might take out Dusk Strike, but you probably want to leave it in.

    #show Twilight Force
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast reprisal
    cast dusk strike
    cast twilight force
    cast primal strike
    cast fiery spike

    As a final note, you would probably be better off going 21 assassin than infiltrator. It provides more +damage, fast stealth, expose weakness to strengthen your opening and foul play for stunning that cleric when you do get them to half hp finally. Better than a mana drain, that's for sure.
    Thank you for this reply. I have that same macro for another spec. While my macro looks sloppy and includes the kitchen sink, it was designed to throw all of the possible interrupts, heal cuts and silences at the press of a button because I was running with others where you are changing targets. However, I did use it solo and now see exactly what all of you are talking about. Its a waste to use ebon fury before a Deadly Strike - and I certainly do not want a sleight of hand CP after Deadly Strike. The purpose of having Sleight Come fast was to strip hots = assuming that was not fixed in a recent patch.

    As you can tell from my macro, lol, I have mostly played my Rogue with very little macroing. I will go back to that mentality with this spec.

    I beg to differ on the 21 Assassin instead of 20 Inf. I have of course tried 21 Assassin in just about every spec - except for 51 Assassin. However, my whole point was to add as much interrupt / adverse effects possible for a mana user. One stun (which rarely even gets applied anymore due to immunity from other people's stuns) and more dps does not meet the goal of this spec more than Sleight of Hand, Pardon the Interruption and Evading Thoughts. I have that exact spec - 21 Assassin, 32 NP and 13 BD - it does not do as well for the stated goal.

    Dunsparrow - I have no idea why the link does not work. It worked yesterday as you can see from others comments. I blame rift zam. I have linked it again here below. And, for the record, I have been online longer than the Internet has been mainstream as I was a Prodigy / Compuserv customer. Copying and pasting links is not rocket science, yet I cannot explain why it worked yesterday but not today.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...dhz.VItoGoMoos
    Last edited by Shademade; 07-07-2011 at 08:17 AM.

  11. #11
    Champion Vaeranth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shademade View Post
    Thank you for this reply. I have that same macro for another spec. While my macro looks sloppy and includes the kitchen sink, it was designed to throw all of the possible interrupts, heal cuts and silences at the press of a button because I was running with others where you are changing targets. However, I did use it solo and now see exactly what all of you are talking about. Its a waste to use ebon fury before a Deadly Strike - and I certainly do not want a sleight of hand CP after Deadly Strike. The purpose of having Sleight Come fast was to strip hots = assuming that was not fixed in a recent patch.

    As you can tell from my macro, lol, I have mostly played my Rogue with very little macroing. I will go back to that mentality with this spec.

    I beg to differ on the 21 Assassin instead of 20 Inf. I have of course tried 21 Assassin in just about every spec - except for 51 Assassin. However, my whole point was to add as much interrupt / adverse effects possible for a mana user. One stun (which rarely even gets applied anymore due to immunity from other people's stuns) and more dps does not meet the goal of this spec more than Sleight of Hand, Pardon the Interruption and Evading Thoughts. I have that exact spec - 21 Assassin, 32 NP and 13 BD - it does not do as well for the stated goal.

    Dunsparrow - I have no idea why the link does not work. It worked yesterday as you can see from others comments. I blame rift zam. I have linked it again here below. And, for the record, I have been online longer than the Internet has been mainstream as I was a Prodigy / Compuserv customer. Copying and pasting links is not rocket science, yet I cannot explain why it worked yesterday but not today.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...dhz.VItoGoMoos
    Shade, the issue here is that PVP is about control, and no matter how great you claim this macro is for your playstyle, we both (all) know there are times (most of the time) which Anathema or any of the other CD's going off when NOT NEEDED and then are not off cooldown WHEN NEEDED.

    Much of the animosity you see in this thread is due to many of us seeing poor macro use (among other things) suggested over and over on these forums knowing that impressionable/inexperienced players are going to see this and think "oh, this is GREAT!", use it, and not learn to play properly, thus further destroying the collective skill pool in a game already greatly suffering in said category.

    Macro's are a great tool in this game to increase efficiency, but you need to use common sense. Too many or too much of one will have an adverse effect on your effectiveness, finding the sweet spot is the key.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander Dyscordian's Avatar
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    Default replied in other thread

    @OP
    i ran sumthing similar to your build for a while http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...xx0R0b0x.i0dbz
    pretty much the same macro minus te cd's
    What i found is is that vs Warriors and to a lesser extent Rogues u have no defense your only defensive cds r twighlight shelter & side step the usual warrior spec punishes dodge so vs a warrior your gonna have trouble.
    your stealth is weak so sins catch u before u catch them and generally u cant use your cds till its to late
    that being said you can generally wipe out anything with a blue bar with little resistance

    @ people talking about ToT the damage is low and 750 mana doesnt seem like much but against a solid cleric u know the kind that seem immortal 3 of those and they're mana less. use SoD for the 1st finisher to keep dmg rolling even with ToT going. Also with Dom's draining ability casters are very easy to shut down.
    Last edited by Dyscordian; 07-07-2011 at 09:10 AM.

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