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Thread: [Guide] The Obvious (Sowl's Guide to Marksman PvP)

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    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Default [Guide] The Obvious (Sowl's Guide to Marksman PvP)

    "The Obvious"
    Sowl's guide to Marksman PvP


    Introduction/Motivation

    Over the past several weeks, I have been doing quite a lot of PvP, enough to be p4 now. I tried Terk's 44/22 build and didn't quite like it, I constantly felt stupid having melee abilities mixed with my ranged class just so I could get some crit chance and damage increase. So I swapped to NB, tinkered around and found myself doing most damage and killing blows in my warfronts with 51MM/15NB. Now, it's time to share the beauty of the build to the others.

    As for it's name, "The Obvious", it's simply because if you wanted to go 51MM and mix it with NB, there's virtually no other build you could land on. I find it is comparable to puzzles pieces fitting together.

    Please note that this guide's target audience is the below r4 rogues / fresh rogues that want to do some awesome damage without having access to super awesome gear. The beauty of this build is that gear isn't required (it sure helps, but I grinded through r4 with a crafter bow that cost me 4p to make and still was able to be competitive to the r6's on my cluster

    For p4+ rogues, my personal recommendation is 38MM/13nb/15inf ( but that's for another time).


    *Disclaimer* This isn't hardcore theory crafting, it's covering important points that will make the MM a good MM. Your mileage may vary.

    Now, some charts as a proof of concept:
    http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4241/foohd.jpg

    Also, feel free to skip sections as this guide will be quite detailed.


    The Build

    51MM/15NB/0inf

    The Macros
    There are no macros, you could perhaps put some of the aoe skills together, but I wouldn't recommend putting any other skills into a macro. Your effectiveness comes in knowing when to cast your skills. That's a personal touch, but really, feel free to do whatever..

    The Keybinds
    Obviously, without any macros, there will be some keyboard flexing. I present you my personal keybinds : (Feel free to adjust to your gameplay, but these work well with me ;)
    http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4480/keybindsa.jpg


    Characteristics

    Difficulty Level : I'd say moderate to hard, no macros mean there is a significant slope to climb before you master the build. The good MM uses all his keybinds and knows when to use them. (the only skill I rarely use but would like to is static shot)

    Pros and Cons

    This is basically a 1v1 comparison of 51MM/NB vs Terk's 44/22.

    From switching from 44mm/22sin to 51MM/15nb you gain :

    A ranged snare
    A +5% damage proc with hf
    A passive +15% damage on cp builders and finishers
    A +30% damage buff for 16-18 s when moving out of pedestal
    Improved Master Archer (250-280 damage per proc)
    All the 51 MM speed boosts that you dropped because you went sin
    A +20% for 6-8s(can't remember) when going out of stealth (20m range)

    And lose:

    +20% damage on crit,
    +10% damage after you crit
    +10% when going melee oos
    +10% on normal pedestal
    1 poison,
    some crit chance
    and improved stealth (...)

    i.e. +30%(+50% if crit) damage when all the proc/situation align (getting oos, etc) [sin] or +70% on all damage when your bonuses align [NB]. I would add that the ranged oos (out of stealth) is a lot easier to use than the melee one.

    Your role in a Warfront
    This build is not a utility build, this build is not a support build, it's a PvP dps build with good evasion that enables you to cap points and win group fights. Don't get me wrong, if your warfront is 100% dps, maybe you should bard or spam some heal debuffs. In the case where your team needs some serious damage, this build does it.

    Basically, what you do is join the group fights (this is not tailored for solo capping points / running the flag) and kill the other team's key dps before they can dps your team.

    Note : Since you aren't r4 already, you will have problem killing r6 clerics and I wouldn't recommend attacking them unless your team is focus firing them. (It's a waste of damage, killing dps would have a greater impact on the output of the fight)


    Abilities - Description and Operation


    The Basics :

    Strafe : this skill should be used after popping dark malady when first hitting. This skill gets as much as +90% damage when coupled with dark malady and pedestal. It's not a pure spike, but coupled with rapid fire shot, this bring your target to 40-60%. Now, it's time to finish them. That will be the basic idea as an MM, build your burst by removing a good chunk of health and then go for the high spike stuff, don't do it backwards as they would have the time to cast hots or heals. The deadeye shots that take 1/3 of their health bar will be your friend.

    Rapid fire shot : should be used whenever possible and off IHNR (improved hit and run).

    Hasted shot : Use it against warriors/melee rogues when kiting. You should NEVER be standing still when fighting a melee opponent. That means : No empowered shot, no deadeye unless you are under IHNR.

    Improved Hit and Run (IHNR) : 1min24s cooldown. This skill, it's use is obvious use it to burn down those enemies. Use Bull's eye on your first deadeye (5cp) and then go for 4 cp + deadeye.

    Quick Reload : 3min cooldown. If you look carefully, IHNR can fit three times in a Quick reload cooldown, one at the beginning, one in the middle, one in the end. That means, USE your cooldowns! It is far better to be wishing that your cooldowns were up than wishing you popped it while waiting in the cemetary. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean you should pop it when you have 20% health and being focus fired, it simply means that the more you use IHNR, the more you can squeeze in your QR cooldowns.

    Swift Shot : the Spam attack, use it when there's seriously nothing else to do that would suit the fight. If there was a macro to MM, this would be the last one.

    Empowered Shot & Deadeye : If you are off IHNR, these should only be used when you are running out of energy. i.e. when you spam swift shot and that you wait between your gcd. Never use against a melee attacker focusing on you.

    Sniper's Pedestal : Drop this before everyfights, and before going to stealth. Remember that it lasts for 16-18 seconds after leaving the pedestal, that's roughly 16 gcd (depending on how you manage your energy)!

    Advanced :

    The following section will cover the most underused skills. Good use of the following info makes the difference between the basic MM and the good MM.

    Barbed Shot : Quite underused, this should be your first 1cp that you use, that is, when you aren't using strafe or ihnr, you use this one first (or coupled with emp shot). Note that this skill deals about 600 damage when your target is moving. PvP is all about running all over the place, so this skill shouldn't be under used. Maintain it on your targets.

    Dark Malady : A ranged out of stealth attack that gives you +20% damage for 8 seconds. Basic set up : See enemy, drop pedestal> stealth> dark malady> strafe > rapid fire shot > more dps (depending on health/ amount of enemies around him, you should either go for IHNR or build another finisher)

    Deaden : Casting bars, break them whenever you can! Soul purge, cinder burst, mortality, healing invocation are all great skill to interupt / put a silence on. Learn to use this! It's off gcd!

    Twilight Force : a Ranged snare. This coupled with On the Double enables you to kite warriors / melee rogues and eventually kill them. Don't forget barbed shot! You should only cast this AFTER they used their gap closer, because they purge their CC. Basic set - up : Let him charge, break free, snare him, on the double, barbed shot (if not already on target), <kite + do damage>. Be warned though, don't waste a cd if that warrior was focus fired before and is probably on DR, be smart about it.

    Retreat : I personally only used that one coupled with otd when I saw I was going to lose a fight. Know when you can't kill them, and then run.

    Bull's eye : should always be used when spiking, i.e. the first deadeye shot you cast when you are on IHNR (so that cooldowns match).

    Fan out : Crap dps AoE, why bother? Capture denial. If a team mate dropped the flag, or there are 3 person trying to cap a flag. Fan them out. Instant interupt and it usually gives your team enough time to cap it back or make the fang/shard respawn. Don't use lighting, its too slow, I wouldn't use crossfire either.

    Static shot : This skill is a skill I personally don't master, I wish I used it more but I don't. In some rare occasions, this skill could let you run out of the 20 m range of a warrior. Or it might be usefull to stop a carrier from running. Other players might have a better use for it, it's probably the one skill I rarely use in the build.


    Perks/Consumables

    Blood thirsty should ALWAYS be up. As this build mainly focuses on burning ennemies down, the guild perk Blood thirsty should be up at ALL times. I repeat, all times!

    [Optional : ]
    Mighty Healing Pot
    50% Leeching pot
    Noise cancelling coating
    Performance insoles
    the +5% mount speed
    Whetstones,
    etc.


    Conclusion

    Hope this helps and provide a good insight at how to play MM like a boss. Also please refrain from flaming/trolling in this thread. If you have questions about the build, ask them here and I will try to reply as soon as possible.

    Salutations Terk, your build is what made me try MM.

    Good hunting ;)


    Sowl
    Last edited by Sir Sowl; 06-22-2011 at 12:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Thanks to C0unt for pointing it out,

    I forgot some numbers in my comparison of Terk's 44 vs 15NB,

    Melee oos does +15% while reducing incoming by 15%,
    And the +4% from Murderous intent.

    i.e. instead of 30%(50%) it is 39%(69%)

  3. #3
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    I use the 44/22 Spec, and I'd like to make some corrections to things you missed on the differences. Just going to add to your list.

    From switching from 44mm/22sin to 51MM/15nb you gain :
    A ranged snare - which makes you stop auto attacking because it is based on melee weapon damage.
    A +5% damage proc with hf
    A passive +15% damage on cp builders and finishers - Very important to realize this doesn't affect a lot of your damage, aka HFB, Master Archer, fan out.
    A +30% damage buff for 16-18 s when moving out of pedestal - this is only 20% better remember
    Improved Master Archer (250-280 damage per proc) - You boost the proc by an extremely minimal amount.
    All the 51 MM speed boosts that you dropped because you went sin - With 44 points you can get the speed boosts. The 7 points I skipped were 0/2 Improved Repelling Shot, 0/3 Sharpshooter and 3/5 Keen Eye
    A +20% for 8s(fixed) when going out of stealth (20m range)
    Ranged Sap vs melee

    And lose:

    +20% damage on crit
    +10% damage after you crit - always up
    +10% when going melee oos - It's +15% damage from out of stealth, and -15% damage taken for 10 seconds. Also it's a 4 second stun...
    +10% on normal pedestal
    1 poison - which either adds 5% crit chance or has a nice self heal proc
    some crit chance - 5% is a little bit more than "some"
    and improved stealth - Fast, non-ending, harder to detect stealth is amazingly useful. Don't make this a minor point.

    Adding more here:

    Foul Play - 4 second stun on 30 second cooldown, melee range.
    Blinding Powder - 8 Second Disorient on 1 minute cooldown, ranged.
    +4% physical damage. Affects everything but master archer, poisons and fan out.
    Expose Weakness, use before opening for a little extra damage.
    Elusiveness-Ok I'm stretching here, but it is useful for getting around.



    I'm not here to argue which is better. But you left out some extremely important differences most from the sin tree. Don't try to railroad people into thinking Nightblade is better, list out every difference and let them make an informed decision. I see you added a 2nd post where you fixed some of the things, but I'm leaving my corrections in so it's a complete list.
    Last edited by Equis; 06-23-2011 at 12:39 PM.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Nono I agree with you. In fact, I copy-pasted a list I made when arguing on another thread. I was at work so I forgot a lot of stuff.

    But thanks for clearing everything up ;)

    I put the full 30% and put the 10% of the normal pedestal (that was because I was comparing +% damage on that other thread, I clearly messed things up :X)

    As for the speed boost, it depends how you spent your 44 points and I was probably making a bad generalization. My assumption was that, when you are below r4, you want to squeeze the damage out. Thus, you would spend your points in the +%ap instead or etc but not in the speed boost.

    /wave

    and thanks again for the corrections
    Last edited by Sir Sowl; 06-23-2011 at 12:50 PM.

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    You should try a build with perma stealth perhaps you wouldn't require quite as much healing. I always consider any match with less than a 5:1 ratio to be a bad showing.

    And you may want to consider always opening with Barbed Shot, and your "spam" rotation should be barbed, swift, swift, swift, barbed.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanDiego View Post
    You should try a build with perma stealth perhaps you wouldn't require quite as much healing. I always consider any match with less than a 5:1 ratio to be a bad showing.

    And you may want to consider always opening with Barbed Shot, and your "spam" rotation should be barbed, swift, swift, swift, barbed.
    I prefer not to stick with rotations while in pvp, But barbed is always on that's for sure.

    Also, I find that in group fights, stealth just doesn't cut it.

    I never use it for more than 10 s anyways. I prefer running around mounted, popping pedestal, stealth and open on target than use permastealth. It's too slow imo.

    And btw, those screens aren't my best matches xd they are the ones I gathered for showcasing the build ;)
    Last edited by Sir Sowl; 06-23-2011 at 02:57 PM.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    I tried this spec not too long ago and felt it was lacking so i took points out of NB and put them into ranger to get 51MM/7Rang/8NB. You gain 50AP and 5% crit, lose the 5% dmg buff and 6% finisher dmg, lose medium snare, gain a long range snare and gain 2% dmg to all ranged attacks. I find I prefer this mostly because of the crit/ap bonus, though i am loseing break free which causes me to die a couple extra times from sins. Those are just my thoughts tho and i may be forgetting some stuff.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Break Free can be a dramatic tide changer in the situations where you are denying an enemy's burn oportunity quickly before they can burst you down. When playing my SinDancer I LOVE ganking on marksman during their hit and run, because i know i can stunlock them and make them was their hugest cd.

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    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandito View Post
    Break Free can be a dramatic tide changer in the situations where you are denying an enemy's burn oportunity quickly before they can burst you down. When playing my SinDancer I LOVE ganking on marksman during their hit and run, because i know i can stunlock them and make them was their hugest cd.
    Or, you could put bleeds on them and kill them ;) You will die, but so will the MM if he doesn't have a pot or backup heals.

    There's a reason I keep my bf for melee rogues, you can't prekite them and can't kite jagged + puncture + impale.
    Last edited by Sir Sowl; 07-05-2011 at 03:54 AM.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Avandor's Avatar
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    Very nice guide, and thank you for putting it up.... I'm sure alot of our younger MM's out there will appreciate it.

    As a P6 Marksman, who has gone thru more respecs than I can count, atm I do favor the 44 MM/22 Sin spec.

    "Eradicating your buffs since May 11th 2011"

  11. #11
    Ascendant Landru's Avatar
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    NM

    /10char...
    Last edited by Landru; 07-09-2011 at 09:13 AM.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant

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