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Thread: First Time Post ( and first time raiding build, Blade/Sin/Night )

  1. #1
    Soulwalker General Wallace's Avatar
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    Default First Time Post ( and first time raiding build, Blade/Sin/Night )

    Hello all!

    I recently bought rift and have loved all the calling's equally. I plan to raid on my rogue however because its the only one I have at 50 atm (the rest are 20,31,32 ) I plan on being a melee dps. (obviously)

    Now this is my current build

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...b.Vhx.0VMfxcbm

    I use the blade dancer moves primarily and the other 2 trees for their passive buffs(except for a few key sin moves). What I'm asking is: are there any glaring flaws that I am missing? Will I be an asset or liability to my guild? Will this actually do well? I've looked at the builds on ZAM but I just don't understand some of their choices if they were truly for PvE DPS.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Bladedancer is a fantastic raiding pve build, but you do have a couple of issues with the build you posted. First, as a damage dealer in a raid, you should never be getting hit or taking damage, which makes all of "proc on dodge" talents useless. Further, almost all of your damage will be physical, so the 3 points you used in Nightblade to increase your elemental damage are wasted. As a final note, in Rift, the poisons aren't particularly useful, so the 8 talent points you used to improve them could see better use.

    As a slightly modified version of your build, I recommend this: 32 bladedancer/14 nightblade/ 19 assassin..

    Make this macro:

    #show Keen Strike/Backstab/Puncture <--- pic one of those, whichever you prefer
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Backstab
    cast Puncture
    cast Precision Strike
    cast Quick Strike
    cast Keen Strike
    cast Fiery Strike

    This will allow you to spam one button, and it will automatically use your highest importance moves first. Further, if you move out of range, that same button will start building stacks of Fiery Strike, applying a damage over time spell, and building you combo points.

    As you can see, there is one floater point in the build. You can use this point to pick up whatever final move you think is most useful; Dancing steel is a great Area of Effect spell, Flame Thrust is a good ranged finisher if you get stuck hiding from an AoE or other boss mechanic and Disengage could be a useful stun (as a lot of trash mobs, even in raids, can be stunned.)

  3. #3
    Soulwalker General Wallace's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for the advice!

    I was looking at the builds on ZAM and I noticed that most if not all the builds took a couple defensive talents... which perplexed me... but I assumed that everyone in the raid would be taking damage somehow so I figured that a couple would be needed. Thank you for the advice and I'll change my build immediately.

    Also:

    Thank you for the awesome macro. I've been raiding for quite some time(EQ1: Scars of Velios ring a bell?) but I've always stayed away from macros and more into UI modification. I think I'll learn the Rift macro API if I can make awesome macros like that.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreun View Post
    Bladedancer is a fantastic raiding pve build, but you do have a couple of issues with the build you posted. First, as a damage dealer in a raid, you should never be getting hit or taking damage, which makes all of "proc on dodge" talents useless. Further, almost all of your damage will be physical, so the 3 points you used in Nightblade to increase your elemental damage are wasted. As a final note, in Rift, the poisons aren't particularly useful, so the 8 talent points you used to improve them could see better use.

    As a slightly modified version of your build, I recommend this: 32 bladedancer/14 nightblade/ 19 assassin..

    Make this macro:

    #show Keen Strike/Backstab/Puncture <--- pic one of those, whichever you prefer
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Backstab
    cast Puncture
    cast Precision Strike
    cast Quick Strike
    cast Keen Strike
    cast Fiery Strike

    This will allow you to spam one button, and it will automatically use your highest importance moves first. Further, if you move out of range, that same button will start building stacks of Fiery Strike, applying a damage over time spell, and building you combo points.

    As you can see, there is one floater point in the build. You can use this point to pick up whatever final move you think is most useful; Dancing steel is a great Area of Effect spell, Flame Thrust is a good ranged finisher if you get stuck hiding from an AoE or other boss mechanic and Disengage could be a useful stun (as a lot of trash mobs, even in raids, can be stunned.)
    There are few things I personally dont agree with this build. For one, quick strike is a waste because it does not provide 2 combo points and it forces you to use keen strike again in order to use precision, meaning you will have to waste DD on a keen. Two, I personally think that its better to get Ebon Fury instead of 6 more seconds of BT. Ebon Fury is one of the best CD skills IMO. Third, by going deeper into NB, you can now use dusk strike for more two point combo point generators. More two combo point generators = faster deadly strikes, meaning more DD. Fourth, without unstable state, your fiery spike stacks deal much less damage.

    This is the build I use: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...hxzhoM.0VRcxob

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    While that build does tend to parse a bit higher, it's rotation is much more complicated, and would be a bit trickier to pull off at first. The build I linked is what I use most of the time, and I consistently and easily can pull over 1k dps. Less DoT timer watching and macro management also gives you a bit more attention on not standing in things, which seems to be Trion's favourite boss mechanic to date.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Seriisbad's Avatar
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    Spec:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...0b.iGcf00kcomz

    Macro 1:
    #show Puncture
    petcast rend
    petcast bloodied blow
    petcast razor lash
    petattack
    cast weapon barrage
    cast Precision Strike
    cast Puncture
    cast Quick Strike
    cast Keen Strike
    cast quick shot

    macro 2:
    #show Deadly Strike
    cast Deadly strike
    cast head shot



    This is my build. Hit macro 1 till you get 5 points, hit macro 2.
    Last edited by Seriisbad; 06-15-2011 at 11:35 AM.
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  7. #7
    Champion of Telara
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    Right..The posts above are cute and misleading, but i am a surprised a new player went slightly towards the proper direction, yay for you!

    If you want a Bladedancer spec that actually works.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....0VRcxof.VhxMb

    Do notice Sprint is a filler, you can put it anywhere you like, higher geared rogues certainly do not take Combat Expertise, but until you reach over 240 hit yourself, you want the talent.

    To the poster above says that Unstable State is useless, sorry you are bad ;D

    To the guy answering him, yes Ebon Fury is cute, but still not as good as it sounds in a BD spec, i prefer my 1.8k Backstab/Precisions and the 1.6k Puncture in raids than the 1.3k Dusk Strike spam every 2 minutes, its an awesome burst though.

    Anyways basic things to know:

    Quick Strike sucks.

    Nightblade Abilities apart from Fiery Spike on a non-nightblade spec are useless.

    with those 2 above the rotation is simple.

    Opener: Dark Malady-->Puncture-->Fiery Spike-->Deadly Strike

    Follower: Fiery Spike-->Backstab->Keen Strike-->Precision Strike-->Deadly Strike

    The real rotation after that:

    Fiery Spike-->Backstab-->Puncture-->Keen-->Deadly Strike

    Fiery Spike Backstab-->Precision Strike-->Keen-->Deadly Strike
    Last edited by potis; 06-15-2011 at 02:42 PM.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Right..The posts above are cute and misleading, but i am a surprised a new player went slightly towards the proper direction, yay for you!

    If you want a Bladedancer spec that actually works.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....0VRcxof.VhxMb

    Do notice Sprint is a filler, you can put it anywhere you like, higher geared rogues certainly do not take Combat Expertise, but until you reach over 240 hit yourself, you want the talent.

    To the poster above says that Unstable State is useless, sorry you are bad ;D

    To the guy answering him, yes Ebon Fury is cute, but still not as good as it sounds in a BD spec, i prefer my 1.8k Backstab/Precisions and the 1.6k Puncture in raids than the 1.3k Dusk Strike spam every 2 minutes, its an awesome burst though.

    Anyways basic things to know:

    Quick Strike sucks.

    Nightblade Abilities apart from Fiery Spike on a non-nightblade spec are useless.

    with those 2 above the rotation is simple.

    Opener: Dark Malady-->Puncture-->Fiery Spike-->Deadly Strike

    Follower: Fiery Spike-->Backstab->Keen Strike-->Precision Strike-->Deadly Strike

    The real rotation after that:

    Fiery Spike-->Backstab-->Puncture-->Keen-->Deadly Strike

    Fiery Spike Backstab-->Precision Strike-->Keen-->Deadly Strike
    lol i agree, this OP is definitely a pro and not a noob. he figured out without trying what 90% of rogues still havent figured out yet :P
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    lol i agree, this OP is definitely a pro and not a noob. he figured out without trying what 90% of rogues still havent figured out yet :P
    Yeap, its good to see there is some hope still.

    Oh how i dread the day that i wont open the parser near the dummy and see rogues in raid daggers doing 700 DPS in some random spec with a terrible rotation.

    Good thing Rift community has people that listen.

    How many times have i had the whisper "Thanks a lot man my dps went up a lot!"

  10. #10
    Soulwalker General Wallace's Avatar
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    Thank you for the compliments(?)

    I've run a few T2's on each spec and I'm finding Potis' spec to be most fitting of my play style, I like the idea of macroable rotations and what not but I'm still rooted in my keybinding ways

    I've just absolutely burning things to death with the spec and I'm hoping in the future I can contribute my own know-how (once I get some more experience and sit down to make a spreadsheet for my character). I guess my initial build was based off what I'd seen in other builds on ZAM(which are now confirmed imo to be trash) and several years of theorycrafting every game I've ever played(ElitistJerks.com was my homepage for 2 years.)

    Back to the thread: I'm so used to using Quickstrike I ended up placing precision strike in its place and taking it off my bindings completely. Is there any reason at all to even have it out? I'm assuming not because I cannot think of a situation where I would NEED to use it.

    *edit* doh! forgot the word "run" after "I've"
    Last edited by General Wallace; 06-15-2011 at 05:31 PM.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple kashaun's Avatar
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    I've stuck to the over all build theme in this thread for a long time, mostly for pvp team support though plus I'm a sucker for animations so my build is not entirely dps optimal. Unstable state is great as FS is always there for you and a nice crit string with fs is juicy. Hitting that threshold of dps on paper is ok, but never overlook reach and gap closers as an important aspect of your character.

    The blade dancer is the one who's there for the team, positioning and planning on the fly and a few steps ahead is what makes a blade dancer build really fun and team oriented. I would suggest though keeping a close eye on your combat log for awhile and make sure those macros are pumping out what they should be. If there's any stalls or some not firing when they should be, you might consider breaking up those macros based on energy consumption.
    "Never give up and never surrender!"

    So, it's just you 57 cops against KUNG FU JOE? Master of KUNG-FU, KARATE, JIU-JITSU, and all kinds of other shiz you ain't never heard of! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

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    Quote Originally Posted by General Wallace View Post
    Thank you for the compliments(?)

    I've run a few T2's on each spec and I'm finding Potis' spec to be most fitting of my play style, I like the idea of macroable rotations and what not but I'm still rooted in my keybinding ways

    I've just absolutely burning things to death with the spec and I'm hoping in the future I can contribute my own know-how (once I get some more experience and sit down to make a spreadsheet for my character). I guess my initial build was based off what I'd seen in other builds on ZAM(which are now confirmed imo to be trash) and several years of theorycrafting every game I've ever played(ElitistJerks.com was my homepage for 2 years.)

    Back to the thread: I'm so used to using Quickstrike I ended up placing precision strike in its place and taking it off my bindings completely. Is there any reason at all to even have it out? I'm assuming not because I cannot think of a situation where I would NEED to use it.

    *edit* doh! forgot the word "run" after "I've"
    Yes it was a compliment, and yes Rift Zam specs suck. never trust it apart from "what items exist in the game and what can professions craft".

    The reason Quick Strike is bad is because it does not fit into the rotation, and it basically forces you to use an extra Keen Strike, and thats a dps loss.

    Anyways, if you really dont want macro's good for you but they are quite simple, ignore the dumb "raid macros" that are based off never being starved and barely work on any other situation, most morons spam Keen Strike only after a point and dont even understand it, trust me i have seen it xD

    1 CP Macro:

    #show Backstab
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Backstab
    cast Keen Strike
    cast Weapon Barrage

    #show Fiery Spike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Fiery Spike
    cast Weapon Barrage

    2 CP Macro:

    #show Puncture
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Puncture
    cast Precision Strike
    cast Weapon Barrage
    Last edited by potis; 06-15-2011 at 11:31 PM.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker General Wallace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Yes it was a compliment, and yes Rift Zam specs suck. never trust it apart from "what items exist in the game and what can professions craft".

    The reason Quick Strike is bad is because it does not fit into the rotation, and it basically forces you to use an extra Keen Strike, and thats a dps loss.

    Anyways, if you really dont want macro's good for you but they are quite simple, ignore the dumb "raid macros" that are based off never being starved and barely work on any other situation, most morons spam Keen Strike only after a point and dont even understand it, trust me i have seen it xD

    1 CP Macro:

    #show Backstab
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Backstab
    cast Keen Strike
    cast Weapon Barrage

    #show Fiery Spike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Fiery Spike
    cast Weapon Barrage

    2 CP Macro:

    #show Puncture
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast Puncture
    cast Precision Strike
    cast Weapon Barrage
    So this may be a very less than smart question but I'm currently rocking 2 2.4 weapon speeds. I'm thinking that I should always pick a weapon with the highest top end based on the fact that Attacks do not reset the swing timer and that most of the weapon enchants seem to be... worse than I realized.

    When I get the chance, should I replace them with a weapon with a higher top end? or should I go with WoW rogue philosophy of Slow Main-Hand Fast Off-hand. I'm assuming due to precision strike a slow off-hand would by far blow away any other weapon speed.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker General Wallace's Avatar
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    sorry for the double post but this question might also be relevant:

    Once I start getting over the hit cap would I throw 2points from Combat Expertise to Blade and Fury?

  15. #15
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    To the first question:

    Weapon Speed does not matter for your DPS -much-.

    I say much because, what you want to see is the DPS on the weapon.

    Right now they go like this (The epic T2+ ones obviously...)

    29.2-->33.7-->37.6

    The only thing Weapon Speed affects is Serrated Blades, i have seen it run out a lot of times with 2.4 speed weapons, and that person wasnt really badly geared..better than most rogues i would say, T2 + T3 combo mostly when i checked it, so his crit wasnt low..its basic math, 6 second duration, how many attacks before it runs off?

    Compared to 2 daggers and their 1.8 that Serrated Blades runs out from very rarely to never.

    The second question, you will need 300 hit for Hammerknell, so right now you want hit always, if you are not that geared yet, remember that you do need 223 + in raids (People report 240+ needed but you can barely have 220 with T2 gear only).

    Bladedancer wise, even if you want Precision to hit harder, you want the stronger at MH, the rest abilities hit as hard also ;p....Best choice? One ability hitting harder on one ability or all the rest?

    Get 2 x 29.2 then 2x33.7 then 2 x37.6, basically..
    Last edited by potis; 06-16-2011 at 09:47 AM.

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