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Thread: Which rogue specs heavily rely on AP?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Which rogue specs heavily rely on AP?

    Just like the title says, which rogue specs heavily rely on AP?

    Besides bard..

    Is there a valid raid DPS spec that stacks AP over physical crit?

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser
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    I don't think so.

    DPS rogues benefit equally from crit and attack. From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong), 1 attack is approximately as good as 2 crit.

    The consensus seems to be to focus on crit more than ap until you get about 30-40% crit chance. After then adding more crit gives diminishing returns so you start focusing on ap.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Threx View Post
    I don't think so.

    DPS rogues benefit equally from crit and attack. From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong), 1 attack is approximately as good as 2 crit.

    The consensus seems to be to focus on crit more than ap until you get about 30-40% crit chance. After then adding more crit gives diminishing returns so you start focusing on ap.
    While diminishing returns has become a nice buzz concept in MMO, it does not exist in Rift except with a few exceptions such as the amount of hit required to not miss, after you reach cap your getting less benefit from adding hit than you did before you reached cap, so that is diminishing returns but not in the truest sense either, that is just being wasteful. Evidence shows this is true for avoidance stats like parry as well, where there is a hard coded max amount of parry based on probability that can occur, but again this is a cap, not a diminishing returns.

    Adding 10 crit rating will always yield the exact same amount of % crit so there is no diminishing returns for crit. Adding AP will always yield the same amount of increase to your base DPS value, so no diminishing returns.

    What is true is there are ways to optimize your gear combining Crit and AP to give the best possible result, but this is not because one stat becomes weaker the more you have, this is because there is a limited collection of items to put together in different combinations. The concept of Gear points is more appropriate, meaning taking the best in slot item based on a calculation of stats the item gives.

    Some builds will yield better results with crit or AP being the focus of your itemization, but again this is not due to diminishing returns it is due to the way your stats will be pushed through the multipliers that abilities and talents apply.
    Last edited by Visidious; 06-14-2011 at 01:56 AM.

  4. #4
    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMVU View Post
    Just like the title says, which rogue specs heavily rely on AP?

    Besides bard..

    Is there a valid raid DPS spec that stacks AP over physical crit?
    Ok, I must ask.
    Where did everyone learn Bards get high contribution from AP?
    For every 10 AP cadence does 1 more damage and CoR heals for 1 heal.
    Not to mention that Cadence isn't your main heal but CoR is.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    Ok, I must ask.
    Where did everyone learn Bards get high contribution from AP?
    For every 10 AP cadence does 1 more damage and CoR heals for 1 heal.
    Not to mention that Cadence isn't your main heal but CoR is.
    um if cadence isnt your main heal and most healed in the parse your doing it very very wrong

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by whokilledken View Post
    um if cadence isnt your main heal and most healed in the parse your doing it very very wrong
    I second this. Raid bards shouldn't be using CoR much at all...

  7. #7
    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whokilledken View Post
    um if cadence isnt your main heal and most healed in the parse your doing it very very wrong
    Ok, so let's start.
    What does cadence heal?
    Cadence heals loldamage or in other words damage that isn't threataning.
    Let's take an example:
    1) Prince Hylas, First Add (Duke): He throws aoe on the ground that does small damage. Your 400 cadence heal will outheal that.
    2) Alsbeth: When she is in ground phase and the adds do aoe damage. The AOE damage is not high. Players dont go below 80% yet you heal them.

    This 2 are examples when cadence will make high healing but the healing will not be neccesary.

    Let's take an example where you can help more with healing (aka, being a support):

    1) Herald AIR phase, everyone needs to move out of out of the AOE pillar. You also need to stack for the "meteorite". This is where your support healing actually helps (CoR and VoV). You can't stand in 1 spot for 3 cadence ticks. You can't be 100% you will get to use Deadly Strike just in time.
    2) Prince Hylas Soul Fracture, by using CoR you help with the first tick which makes healers job easier compared to cadence heal of 400 per tick.
    3) Albseth, 3 mob stage, AIR phase. CoR with virtuso is superior and better support then cadence. Here again is where bard's support healing is good for.

    Same thing goes for Motif of Regeneration ticking 24/7 and doing high amount of useless healing, gg.
    The heals that actually contribute something to the raid (support) do not get any benefit from AP while they benefit from crit.

    The only time where cadence would be usefull (raid speaking obviously) is Warmaster galenir in werewolf phase due to high energy consuption and constant aoe damage from regular aoe and bleed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentraedi View Post
    I second this. Raid bards shouldn't be using CoR much at all...
    Just wow if you actually believe that.
    Last edited by joker225; 06-14-2011 at 04:16 AM.

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