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Thread: So I rolled a 51 assassin into Scion...

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default So I rolled a 51 assassin into Scion...

    ...And I got my face handed to me, in ribbons - meaty, squishy ribbons. By everything that wasn't already being gibbed by someone else. I had specced my other 15 points into blade dancer for some extra dex and the cheap cp builders... Actually I don't know why I took blade dancer in retrospect because as soon as my openers were over the victim simply took a few steps forward and I was screwed.

    I do far better with 44MM / 21SIN / x spec, but I have an epic bow for that and can hide behind walls and other players. I just fancied getting up close and personal. And no, I didn't try fighting on bridge as a melee spec.

    My impression is that 51 assassin is simply not the spec to choose at prestige rank 1. There's always the (good) chance though that I simply played horribly, which is why i'm posting here before I trash the spec and try something else. Any 'sins want to share their stories of how they keep a target within melee range? I'd throw a blind or gas cloud on them but I needs my dots, and malicious strike never lasts long enough.

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    I think you hit the nail on the head. In my experience, up close and personal fighting at rank 1 was very difficult. I'm only rank 3 now, but it seems to have made a huge difference. Also, I don't personally think 51 sin is the best melee or even stealther high opportunity target spec, but it is definitely decent. I'd stay ranged for a rank or 2 and try it again after that, especially if I had an epic bow.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    well that build is just about the most easily kited build that a rogue can use heheh

    I would suggest dropping bd and getting mm or ranger as your second so you wont be kited as much.. as for me I gave up on cc and went 34 sin/ 32 rs so that i can stay in melee range despite anything they try to lock me down with.

    Also mm is way better for rank 1 pvp.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
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    As 51Sin/15BD, I never get kited. Occasionally a RS will escape, but that is about it. Use the third soul as 0MM, and your primary attack will allow you to catch up to most targets. Anything that is faster, like MM/RS, use your Sprint from the BD line to catch. Has been working great for me, and I imagine will continue to right up until they destroy PvP next patch.

    I won't lie, MM is easier to play. It is what I play when I'm on the phone or feeling lazy. This game has a serious issue with Ranged vs Melee and Melee vs Caster balance.
    Last edited by Calo; 06-13-2011 at 07:45 AM.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosleepdemon View Post
    Any 'sins want to share their stories of how they keep a target within melee range? I'd throw a blind or gas cloud on them but I needs my dots, and malicious strike never lasts long enough.
    I've been playing on my rank 2 15 Bladedancer/51 Assassin/0 Saboteur to keep things in range I've been using the rotation of Jagged Strike/Assassinate (Depending on if they are a cleric/chloro or not) > Foul Play > Puncture > Deadly Strike > Backstab + Serpent Strike and carrying on with Savage Strikes if they are alive and in range.

    If they live through that then they either have heals and I try and get away (LoS and stealth) or I use Sprint or Adhesive Bomb to catch up to them or to keep them close.
    Sonora - 50 Rogue - 8 Bladedancer/51 Riftstalker/7 Ranger - All round tank build.
    Teralia - 50 Warrior - 22 Reaver/24 Warlord/20 Paladin - A fun to play AoE threat build.
    Karis - 46 Mage - 24 Chloromancer/27 Pyromancer/10 Warlock - A high burst support heal PvP/Solo build.
    Tarille - 50 Cleric - 5 Templar/27 Warden/34 Sentinel - A powerful AoE healing PvP build.

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    Thanks for the suggestions folks, I was thinking about MM (as mentioned) as the 0 point spec, right now it's infiltrator but truth be told I don't end up using break free much. My hp pool is so low with that spec that by the time the game indicates I'm stunned I've already lost too my hp to counter attack. I do roll with a RS / sin spec (as someone else pointed out) which my character is far more survivable in, I just felt like building a max burst damage melee spec for kicks.

    Predictably pvp rank 1 and 'burst' don't seem to go together all that well, unless I'm fighting some clown in greens. Was thinking of Nightblade as well, but I really don't like the reliance on 2 minute cooldowns to be able to deal damage and survive.

    I suppose I'll return to it once I have the port scion daggers.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosleepdemon View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions folks, I was thinking about MM (as mentioned) as the 0 point spec, right now it's infiltrator but truth be told I don't end up using break free much. My hp pool is so low with that spec that by the time the game indicates I'm stunned I've already lost too my hp to counter attack. .

    This is exactly why I don't use 0Inf in any of my builds for the most part, unless it is just the best utility option. Pretty much any target that catches you un-stealthed is going to demolish you unless they are baddies, and with normal reaction time the stun is almost always halfway up before you use it anyway.

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    I used a Sin main RS sub MM 2 point build at first (Rank 1) and stubbornly stuck at it because I liked being able to feel like a ninja when I teleported right behind someone and opened on them. However, a few days ago I stopped being lazy and went 51 Sin, 12? (i forget exactly) NB and 2 MM. The difference in damage has been great, I was finally able to kill things. Of course not as powerful/easy as MM, but good enough for melee.

    I lost the heals/teleports from RS but picked up serpent strike from Sin-which really adds to the burst, an opener from NB (forgot the name!) which adds 20% damage for 8 secs, the 15% passive damage increase from other NB talents, a ranged snare- this is great to macro with the Sin snare, really helps to catch people, and a ranged sap-the ranged sap is awesome, with just the Sin sap I often couldn't hit targets because they were jumping around or maybe due to lag, but the ranged one works all the time plus I can keep my distance. With MM I can still hit hard from range and catch most other players. If you have an epic bow it would be a great combo.

    With that build when I come out of stealth I have a 45% damage increase on most abilities and I don't really find it any less durable than the RS build, because as you would have noticed, once you are out of stealth, you are pretty much dead. However, because I can actually dent or even kill things now I seem to stay alive longer, and of course it feels good.

    One other thing- you really have to pick your target if you go melee rogue. I end up spending a lot of time in stealth and only come out if its even or better odds.

    I'll have to try out the Sin/BD build too, it sounds pretty good.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yassha View Post
    I used a Sin main RS sub MM 2 point build at first (Rank 1) and stubbornly stuck at it because I liked being able to feel like a ninja when I teleported right behind someone and opened on them. However, a few days ago I stopped being lazy and went 51 Sin, 12? (i forget exactly) NB and 2 MM. The difference in damage has been great, I was finally able to kill things. Of course not as powerful/easy as MM, but good enough for melee.

    I lost the heals/teleports from RS but picked up serpent strike from Sin-which really adds to the burst, an opener from NB (forgot the name!) which adds 20% damage for 8 secs, the 15% passive damage increase from other NB talents, a ranged snare- this is great to macro with the Sin snare, really helps to catch people, and a ranged sap-the ranged sap is awesome, with just the Sin sap I often couldn't hit targets because they were jumping around or maybe due to lag, but the ranged one works all the time plus I can keep my distance. With MM I can still hit hard from range and catch most other players. If you have an epic bow it would be a great combo.

    With that build when I come out of stealth I have a 45% damage increase on most abilities and I don't really find it any less durable than the RS build, because as you would have noticed, once you are out of stealth, you are pretty much dead. However, because I can actually dent or even kill things now I seem to stay alive longer, and of course it feels good.

    One other thing- you really have to pick your target if you go melee rogue. I end up spending a lot of time in stealth and only come out if its even or better odds.

    I'll have to try out the Sin/BD build too, it sounds pretty good.
    The Ninja feeling certainly does not come with any other spec, and I find it difficult to justify not putting some points into RS for any build I have for PvP (44+MM being the exception). That's one reason I tried 51 sin - I'm clearly walling myself into one single overall playstyle for all of my builds.

    Having said that, I do feel that with 32 points in RS you're pretty damn hard to kill unless you're focussed on, and even then if I use my 30% damage mitigator, plane shift and have a healer I can take a hefty pounding. It's just tricky to remember to keep plane shifting every 10 seconds to keep the buffs up.

    Enduring brew also helps (especially as like you said, the build deals less damage than 51 sin so your fights will last longer) to keep you alive without a pocket healer, and it's a fantastic 'last stand' ability when you know you're going to die anyway. I find that the damage mitigation of the build combined with leeching poison kicks the skill up from 'slightly pants' to 'pretty decent'. If only they'd remove the GCD on it ha.

    I will try dropping BD for NB in the 51 sin build as I don't want to give up on it, serpent strike is a pretty fun skill and I'm sure it'll greatly contribute to ripping people to shreds once I time it correctly between GCD skill presses and get a decent dagger, which won't be long given how single mindedly obsessed Defiant players in my BG appear to be with having picnics on bridges.

  10. #10
    Champion Vaeranth's Avatar
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    I play 51Sin/15Inf/0Rng almost exclusively, and can tell you that you aren't choosing the proper targets, aren't using your Gas Cloud/Blind effectively, and if you are getting kited, aren't using 0Rng or 0MM.

    If you want to kill people, you need to choose ideal targets, if you want to be running around hitting people in a giant melee, get a healer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeranth View Post
    I play 51Sin/15Inf/0Rng almost exclusively, and can tell you that you aren't choosing the proper targets, aren't using your Gas Cloud/Blind effectively, and if you are getting kited, aren't using 0Rng or 0MM.

    If you want to kill people, you need to choose ideal targets, if you want to be running around hitting people in a giant melee, get a healer.
    I do avoid melee cluster ****s like the plague, most of the people I go after are behind the lines doing ranged damage, or support classes like bards. I almost never open on Warriors or Clerics because I simply lack the burst to put pressure on them. I notice that your build packs 15 points into infiltrator which is something I can't do yet. Ah well, I'll revisit it once I'm more appropriately geared, though there's something pure about 51 points in assassin that means I may just keep it around anyway and practice. Our fights in scion are such runaway successes anyway I don't think they'll miss me if I **** around hunting for shard carriers for a bit.

  12. #12
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    Yeah, marksman is pretty much easy mode, that's why you do better. They have all the tools wrapped into one package, with better range and mobility than anyone else, so you do not get focused as much. With assassin, you have to pick your fights carefully and play strategically and stealthily. I find myself playing my nightdancer build I made (44nb/22bd/0inf) much more than my assassin one lately. It has good mobility and staying power with cooldowns and is great against other rogues, which are numerous.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    Honestly, Assassin is TERRIBLE in PVP against anyone not an idiot.

    If they stay in a group, you're dead a second after you open. You'd have to land a string of crits on a fresh 50 to kill it.

    If Slip Away is down, you're dead. You'll be lucky to get a 1:1 ratio for kills and deaths.

    No AoE potential.

    A few good CC abilities, but DR makes them useless.

    After 15 seconds, you do no damage.

    Zero ranged capability.

    Assassins are great at killing weak and singled out targets. Against a good team, that won't help. Against a bad team, it doesn't matter.

    51NB is infinitely more useful. Fellblades is mandatory for taking down healers or people being healed. You get ranged attacks, you get a ranged slow, you get a DPS CD, you get multiple EXCELLENT defensive CDs, you get ranged aoe, you get mass melee AOE.

    NB is pretty much the perfect soul. Spam twilight and fiery spike until you're in melee, hit dusk, hit SOD, ebon fury, spam dusk til they die.
    Welcome to Rift 1.2
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  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaeranth View Post
    I play 51Sin/15Inf/0Rng almost exclusively, and can tell you that you aren't choosing the proper targets, aren't using your Gas Cloud/Blind effectively, and if you are getting kited, aren't using 0Rng or 0MM.

    If you want to kill people, you need to choose ideal targets, if you want to be running around hitting people in a giant melee, get a healer.
    This ^^

    I just switched to 51 Sin15 BD specifically for scion because I can still help my team by taking out the squishy mages that hide at the back. I can handle most other rogues if I get the jump on them, a few bunny hopping MM's are tough but more due to the current distance bug and stun bug. I avoid warriors and healers unless they are attacking/being attacked by others. Some times I'll harass a healer just to make him focus on himself instead of the group. I just got rank 2 this week so 51 Sin has been great for me.

  15. #15
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    @Kayden Fox: Interesting thought. I always thought NB was too much of a halfway between range and melee to be really good at anything, now I want to try it out! I still can't see how you can stay alive though without slip away, and the burst appears lower than Sin. Is it because you are attacking mostly from range? What's the secret/your playstyle.

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