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Thread: Sab/BD spec after 1.3 to keep or not?

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
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    Default Sab/BD spec after 1.3 to keep or not?

    After 1.3 since you will be limited to 2 rotations per DD how well will it hold up outside Expert dungeons where you will have Bard Redux and VoY?

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    Sez
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    Get rid of the crutch now. We all knew the fix was coming.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

    - Rogue Lead - <Gestalt> - Defiant - Dayblind Server -

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Get rid of the crutch now. We all knew the fix was coming.
    The 44 sab spec is just fine overall anyway with 1200+ single tager or if there is any add it boost to way more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darknsss View Post
    The 44 sab spec is just fine overall anyway with 1200+ single tager or if there is any add it boost to way more.
    Right. 44 sab 20 sin 2 ranger (or 2nb or 2rs)
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

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    Sub-par compared to other melee specs but still entirely viable.

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    Did they undo the change referred to in this thread? http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...or-is-intended!
    The change where 1 charge placed removes 1 stack of deadly dance and replaces it with the +105% buff for all charges in the next detonate
    Last edited by Reamerer; 06-11-2011 at 10:15 AM.

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    I honestly don't see the big fuss.

    The Sab/BD build will be working as it normally does in 1.3

    The only change that we will be seeing is that placing one charge while deadly dance is up will reduce the number of times you can do it from 3 to 2; This will trigger a sub-par buff which will say "The next set charges that detonate will benefit from the 105% damage buff"

    To remove confusion that means you can still x5 Combo points -> Deadly Dance -> x1 Charge

    All that will happen is that the mechanics will register a charge placed while deadly dance is up and pop up with a sub buff from deadly dance saying -> "You see that charge you placed there? Yeah im gonna buff the stack you detonate by 105% derp derp" Simples!

    Its a viable spec, its no-longer a bug its intended mechanics as of 1.3.

    ---------

    Things to clear up:
    - There is no major change to the build. Its more of a tuning to what was already there!
    - You could only get up 2 set of full charges for the duration of Deadly Dance, if it runs out - redo your rotation - Thankfully Deadly Strike does not have a cooldown, and Deadly Dance is not proc enabled.
    - There are various rotations on the forums now.
    The more interesting one, in my opinion, is x1 Puncture + x3 Charges (Spike or Shrapnel) -> Deadly Dance -> x2 Charges (Continuation of Spike or Shrapnel from before) -> Det
    Tho when I've been testing with it I used : x5 Charge -> Deadly Dance -> x1 Charge -> Det -> x5 Charge -> Det -> Repeat

    Im going to say it but. Sab/BD/Sin out performs Sab/Sin/(Nb or Rng) combo the damage bonus does waay more damage over time. Tho however I do give props to Sab/Sin for having a more reliable Sustained, so thank you for whoever crafted that build.

    - There are parses to go round as to why Sab/BD is better for damage output, i've provided a couple and so have many other forum'ers.

    - Annoyingly this is probably one of the worst builds to whip out in a group activities as Raid/Experts are not forgiving for Melee players - although you don't have to be in melee all the time but without it you lose efficiency for your DPS as well as Lethal Poison not being up (which increases your crit chance against that target)

    - Sin/BD is better at AoE than Single Target -> Think of it as being a Stormcaller Rival on the fields, it does the job and does it well.

    Sorry for the wall of text! >.<!
    Last edited by iMohr; 06-11-2011 at 10:47 AM.

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    I still feel like it's bugged on PTR. For some reason after you do spikex5-Deadly-spike it applies the +105% retro-actively to all existing charges on the mob. This doesn't make sense to me and I feel like that is not intended. What I just mentioned is what allows sabs to get 2 fully DD boosted stacks of 5 charges off. I don't see why it should be more than 1 stack of 5(or even 3 individual charges..).

    This being said it isn't at all OP and performs a bit below top melee specs(single target) so I don't really care if they leave it as is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by `xell View Post
    I still feel like it's bugged on PTR. For some reason after you do spikex5-Deadly-spike it applies the +105% retro-actively to all existing charges on the mob. This doesn't make sense to me and I feel like that is not intended. What I just mentioned is what allows sabs to get 2 fully DD boosted stacks of 5 charges off. I don't see why it should be more than 1 stack of 5(or even 3 individual charges..).

    This being said it isn't at all OP and performs a bit below top melee specs(single target) so I don't really care if they leave it as is.
    try reading the tooltip, bro. putting on a charge removes a stack of DD and gives you a buff that causes the next *DETONATE* to have all charges with the +105% buff. how could that not be intended, that they gave a buff specifically FOR charge use? did they remove that buff but the affect is still happening? i don't have the ptr set up on this machine so i can't test it myself, but from what i read there should be a new buff appearing in 1.3 that doesn't exist in 1.2

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    The Sabo/BD spec is perfectly viable in 1.3.

    Only thing is..the fix basically did the rotation a bit more ******ed and there is a downtime for the Spike charge by doing Deadly-->Spike-->Detonate, those extra 2 seconds slowly lower your dps and after that that causes a small downtime on Shrapnel.

    Anyways i should try testing without Puncture after Detonate to check if the downtime lowers generally.

    Tested on the PTS a bit.

    44 Sabo/20 sin/2 nb ~1.2k (Mostly around 1.170 if i recall)

    Sabo/BD is also around 1.2k for the start (like after 1-2 minutes) but slowly you notice the damage decreasing by the downtime of spike charge and because of that less Shrap etc etc.

    Then again the delay on PTS is a bit annoying so i cant be sure, but i am staying 44 sabo/20 sin/2 nb for general purposes like the silence bomb on Herald, and its viable for PvP also.. Slow-->Silence 4-10 people and grin ;o
    Last edited by potis; 06-11-2011 at 07:10 PM.

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    Potis, are you sure your rotation is right? It should still be 14 GCDs.

    1.2:
    spike x 5, deadly, puncture, detonate, shrap x5, detonate
    14 gcds

    1.3:
    puncture, spikex3, deadly, spike x2, detonate, shrapx5, detonate
    14 gcds

    so you should have the same spike charge uptime, no? it's the same casts, just in a different order. you should be getting the same amount of detonates--the only difference is the puncture does regular damage in 1.3 vs. double damage in 1.2
    Last edited by Reamerer; 06-11-2011 at 07:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reamerer View Post
    try reading the tooltip, bro. putting on a charge removes a stack of DD and gives you a buff that causes the next *DETONATE* to have all charges with the +105% buff. how could that not be intended, that they gave a buff specifically FOR charge use? did they remove that buff but the affect is still happening? i don't have the ptr set up on this machine so i can't test it myself, but from what i read there should be a new buff appearing in 1.3 that doesn't exist in 1.2
    I did read the tooltip. Like I said, I don't believe it is intended to apply to existing charges, allowing for 2 sets of 5x to be boosted fully. If it is, fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reamerer View Post
    Potis, are you sure your rotation is right? It should still be 14 GCDs.

    1.2:
    spike x 5, deadly, puncture, detonate, shrap x5, detonate
    14 gcds

    1.3:
    puncture, spikex3, deadly, spike x2, detonate, shrapx5, detonate
    14 gcds

    so you should have the same spike charge uptime, no? it's the same casts, just in a different order. you should be getting the same amount of detonates--the only difference is the puncture does regular damage in 1.3 vs. double damage in 1.2

    Why would you use puncture first and not give it the second deadly stack?

    Not that i tested every rotation, i just dislike the idea of not having the 44 spec cause is viable for more situations than the Sabo/BD one.

    As i mentioned it could be a case of delay on the PTS, unless 1.3 comes on live any testing i do is obsolete for me, i just do them repeatedly to give an "average" number and an idea.

    And what i did was:

    5 Spike-->Deadly-->spike-->Detonate

    Puncture-->5 Shrap-->Detonate

    Mostly, just wanted to see the difference in parses, didnt really check completely..Just did what seemed maximum damage "overall" by giving puncture the second stack of Deadly Dance.

    The only thing that i noticed is that no matter the rotation, unless its something really dumb..The damage does not change much..

    Up to 1.3k that drops to 1.2k after the first minute that drops to 1.1k after 5 minutes, which as i already said could easily be the delay.

    Compared to the 44 sabo that was always stable between 1.150-1.2k.

    Anyways at 22th of June and with 5 platinum less i will know what i want to use and when, doubt i will change the 44 sabo, much fun everywhere!

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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Why would you use puncture first and not give it the second deadly stack?

    Not that i tested every rotation, i just dislike the idea of not having the 44 spec cause is viable for more situations than the Sabo/BD one.

    As i mentioned it could be a case of delay on the PTS, unless 1.3 comes on live any testing i do is obsolete for me, i just do them repeatedly to give an "average" number and an idea.

    And what i did was:

    5 Spike-->Deadly-->spike-->Detonate

    Puncture-->5 Shrap-->Detonate

    Mostly, just wanted to see the difference in parses, didnt really check completely..Just did what seemed maximum damage "overall" by giving puncture the second stack of Deadly Dance.

    The only thing that i noticed is that no matter the rotation, unless its something really dumb..The damage does not change much..

    Up to 1.3k that drops to 1.2k after the first minute that drops to 1.1k after 5 minutes, which as i already said could easily be the delay.

    Compared to the 44 sabo that was always stable between 1.150-1.2k.

    Anyways at 22th of June and with 5 platinum less i will know what i want to use and when, doubt i will change the 44 sabo, much fun everywhere!
    Well, you were doing a 15gcd (instead of 14) rotation with 1 charge doing 0 damage and also wasted 2 cp points from puncture, hence you were seeing downtime.

    If the mechanic remains how it is when it goes live, then the deadly spec will continue to be the highest dps like it is now. The only difference will be puncture not getting the buff. If you want to see more accurate results, parsing the 14gcd rotation and adjusting the puncture damage will probably give you a better comparison. The versatility of 44sab still win by a large margin though, with its brainless rotation and capability to be ranged/melee, its just too useful to give up. And with hammerknell being less tank n spank, 44sab will shine even more.
    Last edited by Reyo; 06-12-2011 at 09:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyo View Post
    Well, you were doing a 15gcd (instead of 14) rotation with 1 charge doing 0 damage and also wasted 2 cp points from puncture, hence you were seeing downtime.

    If the mechanic remains how it is when it goes live, then the deadly spec will continue to be the highest dps like it is now. The only difference will be puncture not getting the buff. If you want to see more accurate results, parsing the 14gcd rotation and adjusting the puncture damage will probably give you a better comparison. The versatility of 44sab still win by a large margin though, with its brainless rotation and capability to be ranged/melee, its just too useful to give up. And with hammerknell being less tank n spank, 44sab will shine even more.

    I know why i saw the downtime, doesnt require a brain to count the extra GBC from live to PTS, as i said before just tried to give Puncture the extra Deadly Dance along with every rotation (based around the same always) i could think of.

    Like 5 Spike-->Deadly-->Puncture-->Spike-->detonate-->5 shrap-->Detonate or the usual Puncture -->Spike-->Deadly-->Spike-->Detonate-->shrap-->Detonate

    The end result is the same with every rotation, puncture or not, puncture with deadly stack or no deadly stack.

    The difference is minimal to 0. yeah might be 20 DPS on the dummy.

    All the Sabo/BD rotations (the proper ones, not some dumbass rotation -.-) did the same, awesome 1.2-1.3k the first 1-2 minutes then down to 1.1k over the course or 5-10mins, because thats how the BD spec works on the dummy, its different in the raid hence why dummy PTS parses say nothing.

    Until it hits live where i can test with my usual delay and gear and everything else like whestones bla bla, raid environment.

    Its obvious the Sabo/BD spec is gonna be higher single target, but the 44 sabo is not much weaker and at the same time it has awesome extra stuff. plus i like to throw bombs randomly in PvP xD

    While the 44 Sabo was a stable ~1.2k on every single parse cause its faceroll really and nothing changes on your rotation.

    I just prefer the 44 sabo for what it gives, as example on Herald, silencing the Defiler's thats a fight i can mention instantly, or generally the trash mobs, those annoying Lost Souls or anything else that can be silenced/stunned.

    44 sabo is too much of a faceroll/awesome in many situations to give up.

    Not to mention its PvP viable "a bit" if you want to use it there also..Port Scion aoe as example, good fun there.
    Last edited by potis; 06-12-2011 at 03:46 PM.

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