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Thread: PvE-Melee & 51

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    Default PvE-Melee & 51

    As a melee PvE build I think 17(+1) Assassin is mandatory, but can you go 51 and still be within 5% of the Assassin/Bladedancer/Nightbalde hybrid?

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    Ascendant Dinadass's Avatar
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    Within 5%? I doubt it. Maybe within 10-15% I'd say.

    We had a rogue who used 51sin up until a week or so ago, and her DPS noticeably improved when she went 32sin/bd/nb.

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    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    No soul is viable at 51 points for max DPS. The MM 51 point ability is +30% damage and even still it will parse a few hundred under almost any hybrid... beyond bard/RS. lol

    I think deadly dance was too much of a buff, honestly. Every rogue build needs it to be competitive... pretty much just like SLI for warriors.

    Without Deadly Dance, I'm pretty sure 51 point builds would be fairly competitive... but double damage on three skills per rotation is just too good to pass up.
    Last edited by Kayden Fox; 06-09-2011 at 09:25 AM.
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    Telaran Valdoron's Avatar
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    @Dinadass: that's most likely because BD offers the best overall CP builder damage using keen, quick, and precision strike (vs. a lousy savage strike) plus the higher damage finisher, deadly strike, when talented (vs. final blow) and not to mention the other damage increasing points in BD (maybe not so much the dodge dependent points) also mix very well with assassin. I saw the same DPS increase when switching to a similar build from a 51 assassin build when I first started playing (prob just because I was used to playing a mutilate rogue in wow). If your going all SIN/BD I would choose RS as a 5 pt soul for the attack power or maybe one of the other souls that offer crit chance (if your going pve) but for pvp I would definitely include some sort of ranged attack, either with NB or ranger.
    Last edited by Valdoron; 06-09-2011 at 09:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdoron View Post
    @Dinadass: that's most likely because BD offers the best overall CP builder damage using keen, quick, and precision strike (vs. a lousy savage strike) plus the higher damage finisher, deadly strike, when talented (vs. final blow) and not to mention the other damage increasing points in BD (maybe not so much the dodge dependent points) also mix very well with assassin. I saw the same DPS increase when switching to a similar build from a 51 assassin build when I first started playing (prob just because I was used to playing a mutilate rogue in wow). If your going all SIN/BD I would choose RS as a 5 pt soul for the attack power or maybe one of the other souls that offer crit chance (if your going pve) but for pvp I would definitely include some sort of ranged attack, either with NB or ranger.
    A talented Savage Strike does 15% more damage with a 10% more crit chance...How is that lousy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    A talented Savage Strike does 15% more damage with a 10% more crit chance...How is that lousy?
    Have you ever used both savage and something like quick strike or backstab? Savage is pathetic in comparison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by `xell View Post
    Have you ever used both savage and something like quick strike or backstab? Savage is pathetic in comparison.
    I can't quantify 'pathetic' and Backstab is available to any one who invests the point. I'm not arguing for and against, just looking at the talents 15% straight damage buff to Savage and its still 'pathetic' would mean untalented it dose next to no damage -which is not the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    I can't quantify 'pathetic' and Backstab is available to any one who invests the point. I'm not arguing for and against, just looking at the talents 15% straight damage buff to Savage and its still 'pathetic' would mean untalented it dose next to no damage -which is not the case.
    You might not notice the difference as much if your gear isn't very good. Fact is the alternatives far outweigh it at a high level of gear. If you're with a group that is easily clearing content then go for 51 sin if that is what you enjoy. Else you should switch.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by `xell View Post
    You might not notice the difference as much if your gear isn't very good. Fact is the alternatives far outweigh it at a high level of gear. If you're with a group that is easily clearing content then go for 51 sin if that is what you enjoy. Else you should switch.
    my quick strike almost crits twice as hard as my savage strike. but i have max gear and stack AP so the gap at this gear lvl is huge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    my quick strike almost crits twice as hard as my savage strike. but i have max gear and stack AP so the gap at this gear lvl is huge.
    Almost twice as hard? I'm assuming this is because you didn't talent savage strike at all, and you are discounting the fact you can get +10% crit on it.

    I'm not saying savage is better, but there is no way in hell Quick Strike is critting "almost twice as hard."

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    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    A talented Savage Strike does 15% more damage with a 10% more crit chance...How is that lousy?
    Because you have to spend points to talent it and it still does less damage over all... Is that lousy enough?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayden Fox View Post
    Without Deadly Dance, I'm pretty sure 51 point builds would be fairly competitive... but double damage on three skills per rotation is just too good to pass up.
    Just wanted to point out that this part isn't an either-or. A full Deadly Dance is only 13 points in, so it is accessible to 51 point builds. You could do a 51 Sin and include bladedancer with DD as well as NB for Fiery Spike. You still wouldn't be tops for damage, but the reason isn't simply a lack of Deadly Dance.

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    Telaran Valdoron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    A talented Savage Strike does 15% more damage with a 10% more crit chance...How is that lousy?
    A talented Savage Strike "increases crit chance by 10 percent" ONLY according to the talent i just went back and checked. It does nothing at all to the damage. Where in the hell did you get this information? lol
    Last edited by Valdoron; 06-10-2011 at 10:02 AM.

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    Telaran Valdoron's Avatar
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    Also, anyone knows that if you use the combo builders Keen, Precision, Keen, Quick strike in that order you getting waaaaaaaaaay more damage than a lousy (yes lousy) savage strike. Especially when you get blade and fury which increases keen strike damage after using precision or quick strike. plus they hit even harder after using a deadly strike finisher (which by the way hits harder than final blow, when talented) when getting the deadly dance talent.
    Last edited by Valdoron; 06-10-2011 at 10:08 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdoron View Post
    A talented Savage Strike "increases crit chance by 10 percent" ONLY according to the talent i just went back and checked. It does nothing at all to the damage. Where in the hell did you get this information? lol
    double cross 3 ranks +5% each to savage, puncture, and final blow when attacking from behind

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