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Thread: The Marksman that assisted in PvP

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default The Marksman that assisted in PvP

    Saw a guy running around with what I though to be a MM/NB spec, and I thought well that could be really nice! Get some AOE done and now everyone in the opposing team has healing reduced by 50%, then imp hit and run and assist in the killing of key players.

    Sadly, we cannot get imp hit and run and fell blades but we can get some cool stuff by mixing the two souls.
    I have not tried this yet in PvP, was bored at work and thought this could be nice.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...hbR.iht0h0gRok

    My idea is to stay with the group and plant fell blades on as many people as you can while your group is either focusing fire or doing AoE damage on the enemy.
    If you need to burst someone you could either open from stealth with ebon terror or dark malady and then:

    Was thinking of a rotation like, strafe -> SoD -> hit and run -> emp shot - Deadeye shot
    then get back on AoE or single target as required by the situation.

    Hopefully the PvPers will read this and post their opinion.

    Maybe it's fail maybe not I will try it later today

    I have not gone into close quarters since you can melee with the NB abilities and deal decent damage but I beleive we should try to keep range in this build.
    Last edited by Leirogreco; 06-09-2011 at 04:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    Come on someone must have an idea if this build can be useful or not...?

    I think it can be really nice in port scion...no feedback whatsoever?

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    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leirogreco View Post
    Come on someone must have an idea if this build can be useful or not...?

    I think it can be really nice in port scion...no feedback whatsoever?
    With the current state of the MM being pretty much a single target dps class. I wouldn't waste skill points to get 1 debuff over a team with next to terrible aoe skills that can almost be outhealed with one tick of a bard's motif.

    I personally think that if you want to aoe in scion, go for sab. If you want to support, you should bard. MM pretty much is a single target dps class. I only use fan out for denying captures of either source stones, flags or fangs. It's damage output is terrible.

    Another tip, you should not make builds around a single skill (or close to that). Take eradicate spammers as an example, there's nothing more useless than that.

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    Champion Cinerus's Avatar
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    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...VGobdczoz.xx0M

    Ranger instead of MM. Spam Trick Shot / Rain of Arrows and use Head Shot / Scourge of Darkness whenever you can.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    I play a strictly healer killer build with mm/nb/inf, and it works really well as an assist build. It also has no problem taking down pretty much any healer when played right. So the idea is that if you kill the healer(s), there's no need for fell blades on everyone.

    Link to my build: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...oVz.VhtMG0xRok

    The proper use of Fell Blades and Anathema, with the escape of On the Double and Dark Containment, make sure that you can take down most healers, get away, and help your group as much as possible. Strafe and other higher tier MM talents are not needed, since it's more beneficial if the combo points come from Swift Shot and Barbed Shot, then SoD, followed up with a Rapid Fire Shot in the next rotation. Rapid Fire Shot with SoD up on a target affected by Anathema/Fell Blades? They're done.

    Hope this helps.

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leirogreco View Post
    Saw a guy running around with what I though to be a MM/NB spec, and I thought well that could be really nice! Get some AOE done and now everyone in the opposing team has healing reduced by 50%, then imp hit and run and assist in the killing of key players.

    Sadly, we cannot get imp hit and run and fell blades but we can get some cool stuff by mixing the two souls.
    I have not tried this yet in PvP, was bored at work and thought this could be nice.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...hbR.iht0h0gRok

    My idea is to stay with the group and plant fell blades on as many people as you can while your group is either focusing fire or doing AoE damage on the enemy.
    If you need to burst someone you could either open from stealth with ebon terror or dark malady and then:

    Was thinking of a rotation like, strafe -> SoD -> hit and run -> emp shot - Deadeye shot
    then get back on AoE or single target as required by the situation.

    Hopefully the PvPers will read this and post their opinion.

    Maybe it's fail maybe not I will try it later today

    I have not gone into close quarters since you can melee with the NB abilities and deal decent damage but I beleive we should try to keep range in this build.
    Its been done, but it was a lot more common before this last patch. If you want to spread Fell Blades with AoE I would say go ranger. Stay MM if you want to single target though. Also to run a MM/NB you dont need very many points in MM you can put them there if you want, but you are probably going to more damage with those points somewhere else. I dont think I would go higher than sniper training if I went back to that build.

    Without improved hit and run you have no energy for your MM CDs which you probably now. I used to combine Ebon fury with regular hit and run. Spam Twiglight Force and then use your instant Dead Eye shots. Its not quite as good as improved hit and run, but its not bad.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Sowl View Post
    With the current state of the MM being pretty much a single target dps class. I wouldn't waste skill points to get 1 debuff over a team with next to terrible aoe skills that can almost be outhealed with one tick of a bard's motif.

    I personally think that if you want to aoe in scion, go for sab. If you want to support, you should bard. MM pretty much is a single target dps class. I only use fan out for denying captures of either source stones, flags or fangs. It's damage output is terrible.

    Another tip, you should not make builds around a single skill (or close to that). Take eradicate spammers as an example, there's nothing more useless than that.
    This guy is wrong. Don't listen to him.

    A 44 mm intelligently using eradicate to as part of an assist train is excellent. The other posters are also generally correct that if you want to aoe spread fell blades, ranger is the top option. MM/nb isn't useless though. If you are an under geared pvp rogue, you are better trying to help your team out like this rather than spec for an all dps build that uselessly plinks away at high valor targets.

    Bard is absolutely not the only support option open to rogues.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Angryorc's Avatar
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    For PVP and a ranged MM focused role... you're living prior to the 1.2 patch.

    You don't spec NB for MM pvp anymore, since you won't get anything good (From the NB tree) when you're grabbing the pretty much set in stone Eradicate (44 points MM) and Improved Hit and Run (38 points MM).

    Incase of a possibly Eradicate nerf, rendering it useless... NB will once more be a viable option.

    44MM / 22 Sin and optional 0 point Inf/Sabo for their utility is the way most ranged rogues go as we speak.

    Playing deep NB works, but you're missing the stopping power you need.
    Your gains tho, a snare that gets immune after a short time, SoD, DtD. Twilight Shelter and Fell Blades.
    In terms of survivability I miss my old NB/MM spec, but the stopping power from a deep/er MM is pretty decent. Either way.. rogues without a healer gets roadkilled if caught most of the time anyway :P
    "The universe is a machine where you have been placed, and like a machine the outcome can be known. Every battle has already been won or lost. All that is left is for you to choose your side."

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    This guy is wrong. Don't listen to him.

    A 44 mm intelligently using eradicate to as part of an assist train is excellent. The other posters are also generally correct that if you want to aoe spread fell blades, ranger is the top option. MM/nb isn't useless though. If you are an under geared pvp rogue, you are better trying to help your team out like this rather than spec for an all dps build that uselessly plinks away at high valor targets.

    Bard is absolutely not the only support option open to rogues.
    That's the problem.

    I find it silly when MM's eradicate me when the only buff I have is some bard ones from a team mate and nb's hf. Don't get me wrong, I do use it. But it's not the core element of my build and not my spam attack. That's exactly why I said that a build should not be built around one skill.

    Currently, as an MM, I score 20-3 and in top 3 damage in pretty much every single game with my crafter bow. Considering this, I simply find it difficult to grasp the usefulness of a ranger when they are even squishier than sin's to my attacks (or is it that the rangers in my cluster are all bad, idk).

    I'd have to witness some tide changing effects to change one of my five roles and craft a build around this.

    But hey, we can't agree on everything, we all have different play-styles.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angryorc View Post
    For PVP and a ranged MM focused role... you're living prior to the 1.2 patch.

    You don't spec NB for MM pvp anymore, since you won't get anything good (From the NB tree) when you're grabbing the pretty much set in stone Eradicate (44 points MM) and Improved Hit and Run (38 points MM).

    Incase of a possibly Eradicate nerf, rendering it useless... NB will once more be a viable option.

    44MM / 22 Sin and optional 0 point Inf/Sabo for their utility is the way most ranged rogues go as we speak.

    Playing deep NB works, but you're missing the stopping power you need.
    Your gains tho, a snare that gets immune after a short time, SoD, DtD. Twilight Shelter and Fell Blades.
    In terms of survivability I miss my old NB/MM spec, but the stopping power from a deep/er MM is pretty decent. Either way.. rogues without a healer gets roadkilled if caught most of the time anyway :P
    Not if you maintain Blood thirsty. Also, I personally never liked the 44MM/22sin, I found getting in melee range self defeating for a ranged class. With NB you get dark malady (which is 20m) that gives you a nice 20% increase damage oostealth, 30% increase with pedestal, you get 5% with hellfire blades, 15% passive on combo and finishers. A ranged snare + ood when kiting warriors.

    Keep in mind, use a melee range oos on someone: instantly get that person's attention. There's a response time involved.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Sowl View Post
    That's the problem.

    I find it silly when MM's eradicate me when the only buff I have is some bard ones from a team mate and nb's hf. Don't get me wrong, I do use it. But it's not the core element of my build and not my spam attack. That's exactly why I said that a build should not be built around one skill.

    Currently, as an MM, I score 20-3 and in top 3 damage in pretty much every single game with my crafter bow. Considering this, I simply find it difficult to grasp the usefulness of a ranger when they are even squishier than sin's to my attacks (or is it that the rangers in my cluster are all bad, idk).

    I'd have to witness some tide changing effects to change one of my five roles and craft a build around this.

    But hey, we can't agree on everything, we all have different play-styles.
    It's not about building the spec around one skill, it is about building it around what skills are lacking from the rest of the group.

    I make my decisions around running with a group, not solo-queuing. So if someone is focused on solo-queuing, then that may change things. But if you just want to solo-queue, a 0/0/0 build would work just fine too.

    I keep one spec for eradicate, one for fell blades, and one for pure damage.

    When we have a warrior running a lingering wounds spec and the other team has quality mages/wardens, I'll stick to eradicate.

    When we have a warrior running a lingering wounds spec and the other team doesn't have high priority dispel targets, I'll go pure dps.

    When we don't have a heal debuffer, I go mm/fell blades.

    Kb/deaths/damage/whatever is a ratio I don't bother looking at. What matters (for me at least) is how well you've contributed to actually winning the match.

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    It's not about building the spec around one skill, it is about building it around what skills are lacking from the rest of the group.

    I make my decisions around running with a group, not solo-queuing. So if someone is focused on solo-queuing, then that may change things. But if you just want to solo-queue, a 0/0/0 build would work just fine too.

    I keep one spec for eradicate, one for fell blades, and one for pure damage.

    When we have a warrior running a lingering wounds spec and the other team has quality mages/wardens, I'll stick to eradicate.

    When we have a warrior running a lingering wounds spec and the other team doesn't have high priority dispel targets, I'll go pure dps.

    When we don't have a heal debuffer, I go mm/fell blades.

    Kb/deaths/damage/whatever is a ratio I don't bother looking at. What matters (for me at least) is how well you've contributed to actually winning the match.
    Don't get me wrong, if I have a 6 rogue team in bg, I won't stick to my dps build. I'm swapping to bard.
    I do PUG a lot more than premade, so that may change things a lot...

    Btw, I use the damage along with kb as the only tool we have to sort of have an idea of how good you are doing your role. A pure dps role should score high damage/kb and it's the only reason I put it up. I wouldn't look at these if I was barding. Sadly, there is no statistical way of representing your credit to team as a debuffer. Maybe they are our underground hero and never realised it :P.

    Don't worry, I'm not the guy running around trying so hard to get kb's. I'm running shards and doing the stuff I should do.

    I'm not being the critic, I simply am not a fan of aoe in pvp, period. So ... aoe fell blade gives me a feel that you want to apply it to everyone when your group should really focus fire instead. Put fb in a single target dps and it's fine, even in a group, put a big 1 on the cleric, apply fell blade and you are credit to team. Applying fb on a group is silly imo. UNLESS you have some serious aoe dps in your wf, but that's plain weird.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Sowl View Post
    Don't get me wrong, if I have a 6 rogue team in bg, I won't stick to my dps build. I'm swapping to bard.
    I do PUG a lot more than premade, so that may change things a lot...

    Btw, I use the damage along with kb as the only tool we have to sort of have an idea of how good you are doing your role. A pure dps role should score high damage/kb and it's the only reason I put it up. I wouldn't look at these if I was barding. Sadly, there is no statistical way of representing your credit to team as a debuffer. Maybe they are our underground hero and never realised it :P.

    Don't worry, I'm not the guy running around trying so hard to get kb's. I'm running shards and doing the stuff I should do.

    I'm not being the critic, I simply am not a fan of aoe in pvp, period. So ... aoe fell blade gives me a feel that you want to apply it to everyone when your group should really focus fire instead. Put fb in a single target dps and it's fine, even in a group, put a big 1 on the cleric, apply fell blade and you are credit to team. Applying fb on a group is silly imo. UNLESS you have some serious aoe dps in your wf, but that's plain weird.
    I don't disagree with your overall approach. Even giving things the amount of thought you did puts you a leg up on most people.

    That being said, there are absolutely times where aoe fell blades are worth using. Part of the reason that lingering wounds is such a good debuff for champs is combining it with aoe fear/aoe attacks to simultaneously hinder multiple people. (The other reason is that is is non-dispellable - which is a whole different issue)

    In a game like rift with near-useless cc and effective aoe skills, it is foolish to outright discount aoe damage/debuffs.

    I find it shocking that you haven't ran into high aoe dps groups yet, centering around SCs and DPS clerics.

    This is a different dynamic than many previous mmos like DAOC, where effective soft cc rendered aoe damage less useful than coordinated single target hits. (other than pbaoe bomb groups ) Are you basing your approach on games like this?
    Last edited by Snyrf; 06-09-2011 at 08:29 AM.

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser Sir Sowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    I don't disagree with your overall approach. Even giving things the amount of thought you did puts you a leg up on most people.

    That being said, there are absolutely times where aoe fell blades are worth using. Part of the reason that lingering wounds is such a good debuff for champs is combining it with aoe fear/aoe attacks to simultaneously hinder multiple people. (The other reason is that is is non-dispellable - which is a whole different issue)

    In a game like rift with near-useless cc and effective aoe skills, it is foolish to outright discount aoe damage/debuffs.

    I find it shocking that you haven't ran into high aoe dps groups yet, centering around SCs and DPS clerics.

    This is a different dynamic than many previous mmos like DAOC, where effective soft cc rendered aoe damage less useful than coordinated single target hits. (other than pbaoe bomb groups ) Are you basing your approach on games like this?
    Well, that does sound right. Looking at it from this angle might make this type of build shine a lot more. But considering the quality of our PUGs atm (lol) I wouldn't think aoe fell-blades would be viable.

    This is because I approached this build with PUGs in mind, premade simply is a whole different level of strategy. I also was assuming that Leirogreco was playing at a low prestige rank and in pugs.

    I may be stuck in my single target dps mindset too, considering my sabo attempts in PvP (Which were ok, but I didn't felt doing as much as I am doing as full 51MM where in the worst case, I had a cleric running around healing himself and no one else) I mean, in a pug scenario, other than bridge and codex, the sweet spots for aoe's are scarce.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander Shakeebones's Avatar
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    to the op... i made a build almost exactly like this one for the fanout fellblades 8 peeps for bg when our team was up against the 5+ cleric teams and it works like a charm...

    also for single target the combo i would use was... dusk to dawn -> SoD -> strafe -> rapid fire

    back when i was using it this combo would kill 60% of the people used on from 100% hp the scourge and rapid do some hellish dmg could maybe throw a barbed in there as well.

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