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Thread: Lower level bladedancer builds?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Lower level bladedancer builds?

    Fairly new, and I've read through a ton of the sticky articles out there, but I was kinda intrigued by a Blade/Rift/*** build. Trying to find something fun and that seemingly looking at it could be fairly fun. Is it worth leveling that way?
    Last edited by mikempty; 06-07-2011 at 04:06 PM.

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    Plane Touched Altira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikempty View Post
    Fairly new, and I've read through a ton of the sticky articles out there, but I was kinda intrigued by a Blade/Rift/*** build. Trying to find something fun and that seemingly looking at it could be fairly fun. Is it worth leveling that way?
    I never choose Rifstalker for solo/DPS roles, it's inefficient. Actually I do, but I don't put any points into it, just use the 0 pt ability of teleporting.

    I've played all classes to 50, and I have to say the most fun and efficient role I've come across is my Assassin/Bladedancer. At L29 this role is setup as Assassin(16)/Bladedancer(22)/Rifstalker(0). I use Shadow Shift from Rifstalker to get around more easily and just for fun. It's fun teleporting through a mob, behind it, then backstab.

    That setup gives you a nice burst of damage with Assassinate from stealth, then a damage buff from it. I put 5/5 into Dodge, and have +Dodge equipment. Everytime I parry/dodge I get a buff that adds to my dmg, as well as an ability (reaction). Add in 30% physical dmg from Blade Tempo and I can AE down a lot of mobs quick. This role has a lot of +crit and +crit damage as well. (Eventually when I get around L35, I'll switch from Rifstalker to Ranger for the 5% crit)

    I also really like the 70% run speed as it lets me run from place to place faster, or flee from a battle.

    There's really no need for the defensive or healing effects of Rifstalker, as it is quick to recover health with drink. I'd rather do a lot more DPS than gain the slight defensive boosts.

    With this role I kill stuff faster than any other class/role I have played, at lower levels. It just completely overwhelms mobs with all the dmg buffs, crits, crit dmg, and reaction abilities (weapon barrage and reprisal). I also try to keep Combat Culmination up which increased hit, dodge/parry, crit chance by 3%. Basically I never miss, and with great weapons my auto attack damage is nearly as good as my combo point abilities.

    I also have a Ranger/Assassin for ranged, which is less effective. I just use this for boss fights in dungeons when I need to go ranged. The main thing I dislike about it is I miss a LOT on finishers and abilities, or they're parried/dodged.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser
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    Riftstalker makes melee leveling/solo'ing efficient, I do not know what you are talking about saying that it isn't. Rift scavenger is the bee's knee's for leveling with speed. Who needs to stop and drink when you end fights with near or full health? You can also multi pull mobs with ease. Look up the bladedancer/assassin/riftstalker build floating around these forums somewhere, it's great.

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    Rift Disciple Scrumdiddly's Avatar
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    Listen to what Sorrower said! Look up the cuisinart build (I think that's what it's called). Very very very effective and efficient soloing build for PvE. Though it doesn't start getting real good til 30 or so. But man, once it gets goin, it really goes

    The problem with BD at lower levels seems to be that its DPS is relatively weak compared to assassin or NB or ranger, but you may as well give it a shot; really depends on what you mean by low level? Typical route as melee is to start with Assasin/BD as main soul for damage, pumping extra points into RS to get Rift Scavenger, which lets you kill stuff with consistency.

    RS is practically required for peak soloing efficiency. Being able to refund unused combo points for large amounts of healing, with only 13 points in the soul, is incredibly useful in allowing maximal amounts of you running around killing stuff without stopping. if you're dpsing in an instance, then yes, it's not going to do you any good, but it lets you farm and quest like some sort of insane mob-rapemachine, especially once you can back it up with solid damage from other souls.
    Last edited by Scrumdiddly; 06-07-2011 at 09:00 PM.

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    Plane Touched Altira's Avatar
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    I tried it out, it is nice at L30. The armor and attack power finishers with Rifstalker help too. I still prefer the crits and other abilities from my stronger BD/Assassin role though.

    I'd say if you're less than L30, focus more on Assassin/BD to get the most DPS. The first 5 points for attack power in Rifstalker help while soloing or in a group, but the other 8 points are only justified while soloing. This another reason I prefer my pure Assassin/BD role, as it's great for soloing and doesn't waste points into things that are not used in a group setting.

    And since I have a Bard role, Assassin/BD (melee) role, Ranger/Assassin (ranged) role, there's no point in paying out about 20p for a 4th role that is almost identical to my Assassin/BD except I put 13 points into Rifstalker.

    When I play my Assassin/BD it feels like overkill with all the dmg/crit buffs. I just overwhelm single targets, with my defense skills (dodge/parry) adding even more to my DPS. I'm of the mindset that superior DPS is better than any compromise of DPS for defense/utility. It's just more fun seeing all that damage.
    Last edited by Altira; 06-08-2011 at 05:48 AM.

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    General of Telara
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    If you're interested in using Riftstalker for its healing, then you need to at least put 13 points into it. As you gain more levels, you can put more into it for additional teleports.

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    Plane Touched Altira's Avatar
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    I'm L40 now, but at L38 I switched to pure Assassin/Bladedancer and 0 in Rifstalker for the teleport. Now though I switched to 0 point in Bard instead for the +4 damage from the motif. The DPS of this role is so much better than the heals from Rifstalker. I believe it was around 26 points into Assassin I get the leeching poison, which does around 60 health when it procs (modified by base spellpower from your stats). Which helps a lot, as well as killing stuff quickly.

    At this level range I find myself trying to finish as many L30 quests as possible for the exp and more importantly the money. So I'm fighting stuff around L35-37. Needless to say mobs die really fast. I tried switching to my Ranger/Marksman role, but it's not as quick.

    The best thing about Assassin/Bladedancer is all the crits and crit dmg, DoT's, reactives. It's a deluge of damage and a LOT of it crits, and considering the bonus to crit damage, we're talking a lot of damage that happens very quickly and consistently. Layers of it topped with bursts. It's so much fun. Like I said I played all roles of every class to 50, this role is by far the most fun because it just POURS ON the damage *if* you're soloing. Mainly because of parry/dodge and the damage bonus and abilities associated with that.

    Not to mention I love being able to run around with 70% run speed while stealthed, while stealth has no movement penalty and infinite duration.
    Last edited by Altira; 06-13-2011 at 04:44 AM.

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    Plane Touched Tarkadal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altira View Post
    I'm L40 now, but at L38 I switched to pure Assassin/Bladedancer and 0 in Rifstalker for the teleport. Now though I switched to 0 point in Bard instead for the +4 damage from the motif. The DPS of this role is so much better than the heals from Rifstalker. I believe it was around 26 points into Assassin I get the leeching poison, which does around 60 health when it procs (modified by base spellpower from your stats). Which helps a lot, as well as killing stuff quickly.
    If you're going to use Bard for soloing, it's worth it to put in 8 points for survivability. Pulling with cadence is a lot like drinking, except the mob is taking damage while you use it. I also found it handy when questing a few levels above me. It is way more forgiving than the RS build when the targets are 3+ levels above you. The other advantage is that it allows for 5 more points in DPS than the RS builds.
    Once you've reached late 30's though, the RS builds become really hard to beat for soloing equal levels and below.
    Before your late 20's, you're probably better off just going pure DPS. In fact, I would suggest xBD/17Sin/12NB until you reach a point where you find yourself drinking too much.

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
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    go BD/RS/BARD. It has all the offense and defense you need for anything while leveling including soloing elite rifts if you feel like it. Rift Scavenger returns health for every CP you have on the mob when it dies. BD also offers plenty of avoidance/reactives (disarm/reprisal) for soloing with mobs on you as well as good offensive buffs and some hard hitting abilities. RS will give you Annihilate which puts a very nice AP buff on you for 60 seconds after using it so it is usually best to open with then use Deadly Strike for the Deadly Dance buff. Bard offers you ranged pulling with healing and just good heals and some def.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Altira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkadal View Post
    If you're going to use Bard for soloing, it's worth it to put in 8 points for survivability. Pulling with cadence is a lot like drinking, except the mob is taking damage while you use it. I also found it handy when questing a few levels above me. It is way more forgiving than the RS build when the targets are 3+ levels above you. The other advantage is that it allows for 5 more points in DPS than the RS builds.
    Once you've reached late 30's though, the RS builds become really hard to beat for soloing equal levels and below.
    Before your late 20's, you're probably better off just going pure DPS. In fact, I would suggest xBD/17Sin/12NB until you reach a point where you find yourself drinking too much.
    From my experience, leveling 4 characters to L50, I'm never fighting mobs more than 1 level above mine. Unless I join a dungeon group where I just barely fit the level requirement, but then that's not soloing so it's not relevant here. By the time I hit L38 or so, I'm fighting mobs that are at least 2 levels below me, sometimes up to 5 levels. Mostly because I've joined random dungeon groups as often as I can, which greatly accelerates exp, not to mention the rare cache has given me weapons better than I have ever seen before at my level.

    So what this means is the level disparity gives me a great advantage in offense and defense. I end up parrying/dodging more and this gives me 10% dmg boost, an automatic attack with both weapons, and activates Reprisal ability. I also crit a lot more on these weaker targets, and with 20% increased crit dmg, it's a lot of damage.

    So by that level, I'm far better off with my Assassin/Bladedancer role. Right now at L42 I got enough points for Slip Away which lets me instantly drop all aggro and go into stealth, very invaluable while soloing and in groups. Not to mention that Bladedancer's 70% run speed works from stealth without breaking it, making it and Slip Away a great combination if you need to escape quickly.

    The key to DPS with this role is Assassin's 15% damage buff after a stealth attack. So as far as using bard to pull with cadence.. terrible idea. The Assassin buff gives me a 15% increase to damage dealt, while reducing the damage I take by 15%, for 10 sec. Since I'm fighting stuff that is considerably weaker, they usually die within 10 seconds. Most of the time what happens is I'll strike with Assassinate for around 1000-1500 dmg, then dodge the mob's initial attack. That dodge makes me attack with both weapons, gives me 10% dmg increase (which at this point becomes 25% total) and activates Reprisal. I hit with Puncture to build up to the 5 combo, then use a finisher and then hit Reprisal and Weapon Barrage = DEAD MOB. Within that short time frame, some poison procs, melee attacks, and melee crit DoT (serrated blades) has been dealt as well.

    Bladedancer has another ability, "Blade Tempo", that gives 30% to physical damage for 15 sec. So with a potential 25% increase as mentioned above, that would give 55%. I activate this when I'm in an AE fight, stuff dies pretty quick before it can kill me.

    IMO there really is no points to spare for anything else other than Assassin/Bladedancer. I'm L42 and I'm still seeing worthwhile stuff to add into each soul, rather than start putting points into something else. In fact I'll only start putting points into another soul by L48, at which point I'll have finally gotten Dancing Steel (fun AE ability). At L49 I'll put the 2 points I get into Ranger for 2% crit, then at L50 I'd reset all the soul trees and go with 27 Bladedancer/32 Assassin/7 Nightblade. Using Deadly Strike and Nightblade's blazing fury effect to greatly increase combo point ability damage.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Altira's Avatar
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    Just to reiterate, I keep seeing people post roles that compromise DPS for "survivalbility". I never find that drinking to recuperate health, slows me down. Because in the same time frame it takes for a BD/RS/?? role to kill X amount of mobs, I've killed at least 1.5 times that, and spent all of 10 seconds ONCE to drink.

    Keeping your gear upgraded is a big factor, as well as item enchantments; runes. At L30, 35, 40, I'm seeking out cairns and finishing puzzles for the chance at rare/very rare items. And thanks to rare caches from random dungeon groups, it's even easier to get exceptional items.

    IMO it's just a lot more satisfying and fun to kill things quickly, then to give up a significant amount of DPS for healing. If you really hate dying, just put 31 points into Assassin for Slip Away, which if used wisely, guarantees you won't die while soloing.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrower View Post
    Riftstalker makes melee leveling/solo'ing efficient, I do not know what you are talking about saying that it isn't. Rift scavenger is the bee's knee's for leveling with speed. Who needs to stop and drink when you end fights with near or full health? You can also multi pull mobs with ease. Look up the bladedancer/assassin/riftstalker build floating around these forums somewhere, it's great.
    This is only partly true.

    You generally need to be in your 30s to have enough points to be both a dps soul + deep enough into Riftstalker to "self heal" via combo points.

    However, by your mid 30s, you've enough points for something like a sin/bd that frankly kills things so fast that you only need to drink maybe every 10 mobs or so, and let's be real, it's not like drinking takes more than 3-5 seconds. 3-5 seconds you vastly make up for from killing speed.

    My very first rogue, I did do Riftstalker self heals, because it was release and we were all still figuring things out. Even then I began to see there had to be better ways, as it was frustrating having to finish mobs up spamming combo point generators rather than finishers, which just meant fights took longer than they should, so the gap between a dps/tank build and a dps/dps build is even higher than it seems really.

    My second rogue however did sin/bd, and I'd recommend this over any "self healing". Not only do you deal considerably more damage, you have a bunch of useful cooldowns. As you progress up through your 30s into your 40s, it just gets better and you kill more and more mobs before needing to drink. In fact, once your first Deadly Strike starts to build, it's especially fun taking off half to 60% of a mob's health in one hit with assassinate. This tends to let you keep rolling Deadly Strike as it only requires one finisher to...finish the mob off, and you start getting on a roll.

    Prior to your 30s? Ha, well, we all know zero points into Ranger gets you a pet that tanks for you until 30 (well, the level 30 pet can actually maintain aggro and its health realistically until the lower 30s actually), no matter if you're playing melee or ranged, so that's a moot issue.
    Last edited by Revial; 06-15-2011 at 07:00 AM.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Altira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revial View Post
    This is only partly true.

    You generally need to be in your 30s to have enough points to be both a dps soul + deep enough into Riftstalker to "self heal" via combo points.

    However, by your mid 30s, you've enough points for something like a sin/bd that frankly kills things so fast that you only need to drink maybe every 10 mobs or so, and let's be real, it's not like drinking takes more than 3-5 seconds. 3-5 seconds you vastly make up for from killing speed.

    My very first rogue, I did do Riftstalker self heals, because it was release and we were all still figuring things out. Even then I began to see there had to be better ways, as it was frustrating having to finish mobs up spamming combo point generators rather than finishers, which just meant fights took longer than they should, so the gap between a dps/tank build and a dps/dps build is even higher than it seems really.

    My second rogue however did sin/bd, and I'd recommend this over any "self healing". Not only do you deal considerably more damage, you have a bunch of useful cooldowns. As you progress up through your 30s into your 40s, it just gets better and you kill more and more mobs before needing to drink. In fact, once your first Deadly Strike starts to build, it's especially fun taking off half to 60% of a mob's health in one hit with assassinate. This tends to let you keep rolling Deadly Strike as it only requires one finisher to...finish the mob off, and you start getting on a roll.

    Prior to your 30s? Ha, well, we all know zero points into Ranger gets you a pet that tanks for you until 30 (well, the level 30 pet can actually maintain aggro and its health realistically until the lower 30s actually), no matter if you're playing melee or ranged, so that's a moot issue.
    Finally someone who gets it!!! I was talking to some guildmates too about this and they were like, "Oh yeah I tried the 'Cuisinart' build". /sigh... That build should have been known as the pure Assassin/Bladedancer build, not with 13 in Rifstalker. Hardly a Cuisinart if you take 30-50% longer to kill something compared to Assassin/BD.

    And you're right about Assassinate taking out like half the health of a mob.

    I also used the ranger pet to tank for me at lower levels. I'd have a hotkey /petattack and /cast Assassinate, spam it as I approach a mob so the pet distracts it while I stealth attack and melee it down. It tended to be problematic though when trying to sneak past mobs since the pet wouldn't stay in stealth too. Which makes me wonder if Trion would ever implement a group stealth, like in Everquest 2...

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    I've run BD/Sin/RB since lvl 1 and have never had a problem with dps or survivability. I still run it as a solo build for farming & dailies. I have almost 0 down time and can easily deal with 4 or 5 lvl 50 mobs. The healing provided by RB allows me to move quickly between groups with no stops and the dps is high enough for what it accomplishes.

    Granted, it does not have the high dps of BD/Sin/NB or the utility of a MM/Ranger or the burst DPS of a Sab, but I've never had a problem in a solo setting.

  15. #15
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    15% increased damage from stealth attacks is pretty much equal to the 15% increased crit chance from plane shifting talent. Not that I don't doubt a more pure Assassin/Bladedancer build does indeed kill faster I think you're delusional in thinking it is 1.5x faster or that those points in Riftstalker makes the build kill things 30% to 50% slower. The reality is that the Cuisinart build (and those similar) have 0 downtime whereas others that can't self heal have some. Builds like the Cuisinart can simply go from mob to mob; they don't have to worry about positioning or going in to stealth - not that those are huge issues, but they still do add extra time. From a min/max perspective I think it is really hard to argue against a self healing build such as the Cuisinart because the dps loss is not that huge and the uptime is nearly constant.
    Last edited by jasohans; 06-16-2011 at 12:19 PM.

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