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Thread: Bard vs Archon, a analasis possible sullution

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    May 2011

    Default Bard vs Archon, a analasis possible sullution

    This is purely an analasys of soul vs soul, support souls are NOT included

    at 51 points what does the bard supply

    Steady small ammount of raid healing, which will cover small damage sustained over a period of time, but is generally unreliable
    1 minute duration aoe damage increasing debuffs
    one of the following: 52 str/dex, 52 int/wis, 52 endurance
    5 30 second buffs (that get overwritten by everything similar and warlords really piss us off with their shouts)
    5% to all stats
    one of the following: 40 resist all 20% movement speed, 13% reduction in mana/energy costs, 657 armor
    some energy / mana regen on cooldown
    perma cc one one target.

    what 51archon offers

    aoe cleansing + debuffing
    damage shield
    up to 15% increased healing recieved
    52 to str/dex/int/wis
    48 to end
    5% crit (overrides motif of bravery even if the duration of motif is longer)
    5% damage increase
    10% attack / cast speed
    504 armor
    reducing enemy effectiveness with less str/dex/int/wis, 5% physical and 7% magical damage for 5 minutes, reducing mob attack speed, and reducing mob damage by 10% as long as charge lasts

    oh and 4 times the dps bards do

    how we can bring these classes closer to eachother, both are support so they should be roughly as effective as one another.

    for example, allow bards to have multiple anthems / fanfares active with more points, one fanfare for every 17 points in bard so a 51 pointer can have all 3 up at once, to compensate buff archon endurance buff to 52 (chance the talent from 20% to 30%)

    and one anthem per 25 points

    imo the healing vs cleansing is fairly balanced, a cleanse can save just as much healing as the bard provides

    increase bard damage and scaling, this is one thing that buggers me about bards, we give up damage to (about 75%) to be able to cover raid / group damage) imo change coda of restoration talent to restorative wrath, heals up to 5 party / raid members for 80% of the damage done by coda of wrath (10% of fury) not only will this improve bard damage, it will improve scaling, as coda of resoration is currently the worst scaling ability in game (1.15 point healed for every 10 attack power, this is after the 15% increase)

    increase the single target duration of coda of cowardice / distress, im fine with them being finishers, but at least make them worthy finishers, last 5 minutes on primary target and 1 on the splash targets, alternatively, let their duration be refreshed by coda of wrath / fury, as an archon can slap a 5 minute version of these debuffs in 2 gcds

    short duration debuffs cannot be allowed to overwrite long duration ones, it seriously annoys the heck out of me that a warlord can slap his 10 second call of fortification over my 25 seconds remaining motif of tenacity, or a inquisitor dropping a 7 second magic damage taken debuff over a 48 seconds left one, go away with your lower duration crap, or make it stack.

    and last a quality of life issue for bards, make motif of encouragement useful, allow it to refresh all currently active motifs on everyone in range / los, or increase the duration of all motifs by x seconds instead of being the laughing stock of the game, or as i read somewhere else, make the critters pets, go forth and attack my squirrels!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011


    a few things to point out:

    First the archon cleanses are curse only so potentially not that effective, definitely not as much as actual healing.

    Not sure how much damage archons can manage but if your saying 4x of a bard, that would be at least 800ish, a bard can easily push 200 and maybe even 300 in a raid situation while still keeping up heals and buffs.

    Seriously... bards are not that bad, sure they could benefit from a few boosts here and there but archon vs bard isn't that far out of balance, yes archons bring the most buffs/debuffs but bards can bring most the big impact ones some of the best useful buffs and bring a decent heal rate to keep people topped up.

  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer
    Join Date
    Jan 2011


    51 point Archons do not do 4x the damage Bards do. That's laughable.

    Our healing is not "unreliable", unless you mean it only goes to the 5 people who need it most. :|

    We can split our Str/Dex and Int/Wis buff if needed. A bit of a hassle until you educate people on how.

    The issue with how stuff stacks/overwrites definitely needs addressing imo. Of course, people/leaders in a raid should learn where the best **** comes from and get on people to not overwrite stuff that doesn't need overwriting.
    Last edited by Kurieg; 05-27-2011 at 08:33 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011


    The one thing that I wish they'd do with buffs and debuffs is that instead of overwriting each other, they should stack but only use the most effective version.

    1. A short duration more powerful buff would not overwrite a long duration weaker buff. Instead, the more powerful buff would be applied when active and the weaker buff would be applied once it fades.
    2. Archons can have all of their auras active without having to worry about them being overwritten, even if some auras aren't currently being used.
    3. Bard motifs will stay up instead of being replaced by shorter versions from other classes, making it easier to maintain motifs and resonance.

    It would also be nice to see bard and riftstalker get some damage buffs. Right now, rogues have the lowest damage tank and lowest damage support class. I don't think their tanking and support capabilities are strong enough to warrant that much lower DPS, especially compared to warrior tanks and archon/chloros. Bards can kind of make up for it, by going with a 32 point battle bard build, but I think those are best for smaller groups and you do lose some healing. Riftstalkers are just out of luck.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    May 2011


    @dasorine , true only curses i havent hit the raids much yet but most instances use curse debuffs, im assuming it will be the same, still its extra utility that can be more vital than our healing in certain situations

    @kurieg bard damage is abhorrently low, 300 dps wont be done if they cant use wrath / fury as a finisher

    cadence ticks for maybe 200 crits in raids, power chord, maybe 250, then no finisher, so assuming all crits thats 850 damage ish in 5 second cycle, allowing us to use coda of wrath / fury while still providing the healing from oda of restoration would be a serious benefit to bard dps, as ive seen wrath crit for 1k easily enough.

    also with unreliable i mean the cadence healing mainly, its too small to make any sort of difference in the short term, say a boss aoes for 2k every 10 seconds on the raid for example cadence ticks will heal maybe half of that assuming we spam it, assuming the heals all go to the same people.

    im aware ofthe splitting int/wis , str/dex but yes it is a hassle id rather just be able to do both.

    @silatt thats actually a pretty good idea, instead of overwriting buffs completely, perhaps suppressing them if theres a more powerful short term one,
    as for riftstalker dps being low, that could easily be fixed if they just removed the damage penalty from guardian stance, but pvpers would complain about riftstalkers then /boohoo

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