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Thread: Empowered Shot vs. Swift Shot: What do you use?

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    Rift Disciple Unit Five's Avatar
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    Default Empowered Shot vs. Swift Shot: What do you use?

    As the thread says...

    Which do you prefer and why?

    Data welcome.

    I use Empowered when I can since 2CP's for 45 Energy > 2CP's for 60 Energy.

    Discuss.
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  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    I favor using Empowered Shot...

    I use Splinter Shot > Empowered Shot > Swift Shot > Finisher whenever it's off CD.

    I use 5x Swift Shot when Splinter + Empowered are on CD or if I have to keep moving (PvP usually)

    I use 3x Empowered > Deadeye when under Improved Hit and Run.

    I like it because it helps me get back some energy (Since I regen while casting it, Swift spam makes me run out of energy and have to wait on energy rather than just the GCD) and gives 2 CP which means I get a finisher quicker (Which is my main source of high damage attacks, hitting for about 2k crits with Deadeye and 2.5k-3k on average with Rapid Fire)

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    It's not what's better - you should use them all. Splinter and Empowered are on CDs, you should use them when they're up. I have Empowered shot and swift shot in the same macro.

  4. #4
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    sqift shot, casting is a net dps loss.
    Just because its broke for blizzard doent mean its going to be broken on Rift.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibot View Post
    sqift shot, casting is a net dps loss.
    Unless you never hit 100 energy during the cast. The damage is superior, and 2 combo points for less energy than two swift shots in a single shot that nets more damage will win out on damage.

    The trick is not letting your energy cap, you shouldn't cast empowered shot if you're high enough in energy that you may cap out during its cast. The energy hit occurs when the cast finishes.

  6. #6
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    Parses and tests have shown using empowered is a dps loss vs swift shot.

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    Telaran 2Tib's Avatar
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    Happen to have a link to those parses and tests?

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    Shield of Telara
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    I personally like to use (and parse better) as the following:

    Barbed Shot + Swift Shot x 4, Hasted Shot (rapid fire on cd)

    Cooldown Burst is:

    Improved Hit and Run, Empowered x 3, Deadeye, Empowered x 3, Deadeye, Empowered x 3, Rapid Fire Shot, Quick Reload, Improved Hit and Run, Empowered x 3, Deadeye, Empowered x 3, Deadeye, Empowered x 3, Rapid Fire Shot


    Then from there on out simply do the first half of the Improved Hit and Run rotations as they become available.
    Tsarin - Sunrest (PVP-RP) - Eth DPS Cleric (50) - Static

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    To have a more complete picture of the dynamics in play, it's a good idea to look at both of the limiting resources of time and energy:

    Swift Shot: Instant (1 sec GCD), 1 CP, 30 energy/10 net energy cost (30e - 20e/sec * 1s)
    Empowered Shot: 1.5s cast (1 sec GCD), 2 CP, 45 energy/5 net energy gain (45 - 20e/sec * 2.5s)

    As far as time and combo points go, Swift Shot will accrue 2 within 2 seconds (firing twice) while Empowered Shot gives 2 over 2.5 seconds. The energy difference is more situational; while there is a net gain with ES, the 45 energy cost can also be a bottleneck and cause a delay.

    Another factor involved are proc and crit rates. Firing twice offers two chances to proc effects such as Master Archer and, depending on the internal cooldown of the effect, offers the chance of proc'ing twice. Firing twice also offers two opportunities to crit twice and trigger proc-on-crit effects such as Increased Fire Power or Cruel Vengeance, and will allow the second shot to gain said benefit in the case of the first shot critting.

    The two shots also probably result in a higher chance of scoring at least one critical. Considering a Marksman with a 35% crit chance, ES with fully trained Killer Instinct has a 50% chance of scoring a critical. On the other hand, two shots at 35% have a 12.25% chance of critting twice and a 57.75% chance of critting at least once. If the Markman's critical chance is very low, Killer instinct might offer a higher rate, but you are not likely to see a character with a crit chance below 20%.

    Because of the factors involved, I would recommend running some actual tests on a dummy to compare rather than just looking at the abilities. Giving ES an unconditionally higher priority than SS will probably result in decreased damage output. You're more likely to see a benefit with situational use, such as ensuring that you only have a 4/5 stack of heat retention when using a finisher (MM/NB) or when you have charges of Deadly Dance (MM/BD). And obviously Hit and Run changes things considerably during its duration.

    Cooldown Burst is:

    Improved Hit and Run, Empowered x 3, Deadeye, Empowered x 3, Deadeye, Empowered x 3, Rapid Fire Shot, Quick Reload, Improved Hit and Run, Empowered x 3, Deadeye, Empowered x 3, Deadeye, Empowered x 3, Rapid Fire Shot
    I have a MM/NB build with a similar burst. I start with Strafe to build 5 CPs and then trigger Bullseye/IHR into DS, partially so that Strafe is refreshed with the reload. The main difference during the rotation is that I juggle Fiery Spike in there to keep the stack refreshed. So it's generally ESx2, FS, DS and ESx2, SS, DS.

    The reason for SS instead of the third ES is that with Improved Hit and Run, the halved energy cost of SS (30e/2 = 15e) is less than the gain of 20e/s. I try to come out with as close to 60 energy as possible to chain a second Strafe into Rapid Fire Shot. The general idea being to have as many skills recharging their CD as possible.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitnine View Post
    To have a more complete picture of the dynamics in play, it's a good idea to look at both of the limiting resources of time and energy:

    Swift Shot: Instant (1 sec GCD), 1 CP, 30 energy/10 net energy cost (30e - 20e/sec * 1s)
    Empowered Shot: 1.5s cast (1 sec GCD), 2 CP, 45 energy/5 net energy gain (45 - 20e/sec * 2.5s)

    As far as time and combo points go, Swift Shot will accrue 2 within 2 seconds (firing twice) while Empowered Shot gives 2 over 2.5 seconds. The energy difference is more situational; while there is a net gain with ES, the 45 energy cost can also be a bottleneck and cause a delay.

    Another factor involved are proc and crit rates. Firing twice offers two chances to proc effects such as Master Archer and, depending on the internal cooldown of the effect, offers the chance of proc'ing twice. Firing twice also offers two opportunities to crit twice and trigger proc-on-crit effects such as Increased Fire Power or Cruel Vengeance, and will allow the second shot to gain said benefit in the case of the first shot critting.

    The two shots also probably result in a higher chance of scoring at least one critical. Considering a Marksman with a 35% crit chance, ES with fully trained Killer Instinct has a 50% chance of scoring a critical. On the other hand, two shots at 35% have a 12.25% chance of critting twice and a 57.75% chance of critting at least once. If the Markman's critical chance is very low, Killer instinct might offer a higher rate, but you are not likely to see a character with a crit chance below 20%.

    Because of the factors involved, I would recommend running some actual tests on a dummy to compare rather than just looking at the abilities. Giving ES an unconditionally higher priority than SS will probably result in decreased damage output. You're more likely to see a benefit with situational use, such as ensuring that you only have a 4/5 stack of heat retention when using a finisher (MM/NB) or when you have charges of Deadly Dance (MM/BD). And obviously Hit and Run changes things considerably during its duration.

    I have a MM/NB build with a similar burst. I start with Strafe to build 5 CPs and then trigger Bullseye/IHR into DS, partially so that Strafe is refreshed with the reload. The main difference during the rotation is that I juggle Fiery Spike in there to keep the stack refreshed. So it's generally ESx2, FS, DS and ESx2, SS, DS.

    The reason for SS instead of the third ES is that with Improved Hit and Run, the halved energy cost of SS (30e/2 = 15e) is less than the gain of 20e/s. I try to come out with as close to 60 energy as possible to chain a second Strafe into Rapid Fire Shot. The general idea being to have as many skills recharging their CD as possible.
    I would like to point out the gcd starts at the start of the cast, its not a 1.5 second cast + 1s gcd, its 1.5s cast, gcd will be done before the cast ends.

  11. #11
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    By the way, has anyone figure out what makes Rapid Fire Shot sometimes proc for huge numbers during raids? My average critical strike with Rapid Fire Shot is about 750-780 range per hit. Sometimes, it will suddenly hit five times for 1450-1500 range.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanex View Post
    By the way, has anyone figure out what makes Rapid Fire Shot sometimes proc for huge numbers during raids? My average critical strike with Rapid Fire Shot is about 750-780 range per hit. Sometimes, it will suddenly hit five times for 1450-1500 range.
    That's the "random" number generator at work. I'm convinced it's borked since each shot (just like Sabo charges) are rolled separately. Sabos go through the same behavior.

    Improved Hit'n'Run is the reason you use Empowered Shot.
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  13. #13
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    No, it's not just hitting the lottery of 5 critical strikes. My normal rapid fire shot hits for about 500. My critical strikes hit for 750. Occasionally, it will suddenly hit for 1450-1500 without any rhyme or reason.
    Tsarin - Sunrest (PVP-RP) - Eth DPS Cleric (50) - Static

  14. #14
    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanex View Post
    By the way, has anyone figure out what makes Rapid Fire Shot sometimes proc for huge numbers during raids? My average critical strike with Rapid Fire Shot is about 750-780 range per hit. Sometimes, it will suddenly hit five times for 1450-1500 range.
    Did you have a warrior using Spotter's Order by any chance?

  15. #15
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    Pretty sure we always have one in raid.

    EDIT: That is probably what is doing it. It has killed me a couple times early in a fight for pulling huge burst threat.
    Last edited by Relanex; 05-25-2011 at 05:59 AM.
    Tsarin - Sunrest (PVP-RP) - Eth DPS Cleric (50) - Static

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