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Thread: Can a Raiding Bard get away with just 32 Soul Points?

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Can a Raiding Bard get away with just 32 Soul Points?

    Can a Raiding Bard get away with just 32 Soul Points?
    The general opinion seems to be that you need to bring 1x full 51 soul point specced bard to a raid. I'm trying to decide if it's really needed by figuring out what you loose by what you can gain.


    Here’s a list of what the 32 Bard brings –
    All the Motifs (with 5% ability increase)
    Buffed Endurance or (STR/DEX)
    Buffed AC or Speed or Resistance or Ability Cost

    34 soul points to spend in other soul trees.


    What the 32 Bard looses that a 51 Bard brings -
    Possible Buffed INT/WIS (have to choose between the STR/DEX or the END buff.)
    Raid wide (minor) heal ever 60 seconds.
    Raid wide fast mana/energy/power/charge regen for 15 seconds every 2 min.


    I am trying to decide which of these builds would be better for a Raiding Bard. The 32 soul point or the 51 soul point one. The advantage of the 32 soul point Bard is that in-between keeping the motifs up, the Bard could be doing some decent DPS.

    My experience so far, if I loose the 51 Bard spec –
    Don’t buff the INT/WIS. Archon buffs that with their STR/DEX/INT/WIS 40 point buff.

    Raid Wide Heal. Have used it a number of times. Hasn’t made that much of a difference as we raid with good healers.

    Raid wide fast mana/energy/power/charge regen for 15 seconds every 2 min. Try to use it a lot but does it really make enough of a difference to spend all those 51 points into the Bard soul?

  2. #2
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    I kinda was thinking the same thing. I made a build with Sab and got Ember Charge so I could increase my cadence dmg for more healing.

    Don't remember but it was 26 sab,32 bard,8 nb. Not bad but haven't done it in a dungeon/raid setting yet.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavik View Post
    Don’t buff the INT/WIS. Archon buffs that with their STR/DEX/INT/WIS 40 point buff.
    They stack.

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    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    Highest cadence damage is Bard/17 Assassin/13 BD

    Joy helps a little bit, but not much. Verse of Vitality is a little helper, but not necessary. Knowledge helps quite a bit and you can apply knowledge and power to those who need it at the same time.

    It's up to you though, Outside of Motifs/Fervor/Combat Runspeed, there really isn't anything major that a bard brings to a raid.


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    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    Highest cadence damage is Bard/17 Assassin/13 BD

    Joy helps a little bit, but not much. Verse of Vitality is a little helper, but not necessary. Knowledge helps quite a bit and you can apply knowledge and power to those who need it at the same time.

    It's up to you though, Outside of Motifs/Fervor/Combat Runspeed, there really isn't anything major that a bard brings to a raid.
    verse of joy is more than mandatory for many raid fights that have dps checks. 51points or go back to 5mans.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
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    In a raid setting, 51 bards are preferrable. The reasoning is simple. Even the highest DPS bard is going to do, what, max 600 DPS? A 51 Bard will still be putting out 200-300 DPS. That 300 loss of DPS is not alot considering the other 19 people in the raid are gaining the benefit of Verse of Joy. Even a 20 DPS increase from Verse of Joy is making up for the loss of DPS from the bard.
    Last edited by Krazed59; 05-24-2011 at 07:12 AM.

  7. #7
    Shield of Telara DeadlySight's Avatar
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    I would drag my bard out back and stab him if he didn't use FoKnowledge

    Int/Wis scales better than Str/Dex
    Lee Trevino, on why he has never had a golf coach: "When I find one who can beat me, I'll listen."

  8. #8
    General of Telara
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    Verse of Joy is necessary in raids. I sure as hell wouldn't want my bards to be in melee range either and be focusing on putting Deadly Dance up and forgetting motifs.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlySight View Post
    I would drag my bard out back and stab him if he didn't use FoKnowledge

    Int/Wis scales better than Str/Dex
    yea we prioritize int/wis buff on the raid and go off in a corner to give out str/dex buff.

    but it's not that int/wis scale better than str/dex it is that SP scales and AP doesnt, crit is the same for both and 52str/dex or int/wis will always give you 52AP/SP 52crit regardless of your class/calling (before modifiers like talents and stuff that raise those figures of course).

    they really need to make AP better, and i mean a lot better. right now 1 sp > 4 crit for a mage, that's a big deal when their weapons have 540SP on it...
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
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  10. #10
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    verse of joy is more than mandatory for many raid fights that have dps checks. 51points or go back to 5mans.
    Not really, but try again. It helps undergeared raids though.
    Last edited by Draegan; 05-24-2011 at 07:40 AM.


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  11. #11
    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draegan View Post
    Not really, but try again. It helps undergeared raids though.
    For well or overgeared raids, Verse of Joy's potency as an effective DPS multiplier will net substantially higher, certainly above the differential in DPS from the bard himself. And you probably wouldn't be suggesting that said raids are going to be in need of Cadence healing, I imagine.
    Last edited by bitnine; 05-24-2011 at 07:50 AM.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Upright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    verse of joy is more than mandatory for many raid fights that have dps checks. 51points or go back to 5mans.
    Joy is absolutely NOT required for any DPS races or anything else for that matter. Stop covering up for the slackers in your raids.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazed59 View Post
    In a raid setting, 51 bards are preferrable. The reasoning is simple. Even the highest DPS bard is going to do, what, max 600 DPS? A 51 Bard will still be putting out 200-300 DPS. That 300 loss of DPS is not alot considering the other 19 people in the raid are gaining the benefit of Verse of Joy. Even a 20 DPS increase from Verse of Joy is making up for the loss of DPS from the bard.
    Your math is incredibly wrong here. From what I've seen posted in other topics, a moderately geared "battle bard" will do 700-800 dps, that's over the course of an entire fight. VoJ only increases dps for 15 seconds, and most reports I've seen say it increases raid dps by about 3000. If we assume a 6 minute 15 second fight (3 VoJ casts, which is weighted in favor of the 51 point bard), VoJ will contribute 135,000 (3000 dps * 45 seconds) damage to the fight. If we compare a 300 DPS 51 point bard to an 800 dps battle bard, the dps hybrid bard will contribute 187,500 (500 dps * 375 seconds) more damage to the fight than a 51 point bard. VoJ has to increase your raids dps by over 4000 before it can catch the net contribution of a dps hybrid bard.

    51 point Bard is better when a fight has a burn phase or enrage phase that you need to quickly get through. Otherwise a hybrid dps bard will contribute more to the fight overall, assuming you don't need the healing anyway. Good luck convincing most raid leaders of that though =p

  14. #14
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitnine View Post
    For well or overgeared raids, Verse of Joy's potency as an effective DPS multiplier will net substantially higher, certainly above the differential in DPS from the bard himself. And you probably wouldn't be suggesting that said raids are going to be in need of Cadence healing, I imagine.
    Yeah but allowing a Bard to spec a bit differently allows him to not get bored and kill himself thus giving you zero buffs.


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  15. #15
    Ascendant Mulch's Avatar
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    There's prob'ly 2 or 3 other rogues in the guild who would be happy to provide proper 51-bard support to the raid.

    Sit down and let them do the job.

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