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Thread: Bards and Motifs (A suggestion)

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Bards and Motifs (A suggestion)

    Motifs are, of course, meant as short term buffs. The beauty of the Bard's motifs is that they can all be put up, Bards are not limited to one motif at a time. However, the one thing that I have found disappointing is that they last for so short a time. Granted, with talent points the time is doubled (5 points gives motifs a 30 sec duration), but even that feels like such a very short amount of time. It almost feels as though the only thing the Bard does is constantly reapply motifs.

    They are meant as short term buffs, yes. But when you consider the other buffs (such as a stat buff, or a poision buff) lasts for an hour at a time, a 30 second buff makes it feel like the Bard was forgotten when tweaks were made.

    I would like to suggest that the motifs be given a longer time frame. Nothing drastic, like 30 mins. They are short term, after all - 3 mins would still be considered a temporary buff, when most others run for an hour at a time.

    For example, the motifs last for 30 secs, and with 5 points in the talent (each adding 30 seconds), it would give them a total of 3 min.

    The idea here is not to make them any stronger or weaker, but simply to give them a little more staying power. Refreshing motifs every 30 seconds just seems to take away from the class, and upping the time to a max of 3 mins with the full 5 points in the talent would be an acceptable change. They are still falling under the line of a temporary buff at 3 mins (talented), when compared to the 60min buffs, but it would give our Bards a little bit of rest inbetween concerts

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Bobjohnson's Avatar
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    Our buffs in combination with eachother are very powerful. 1 minute duration would be nice, but any more and I think it's kind of OP as we'd be able to have the most awesome buffs while at the same time greatly increasing our healing/damage (because we would rarely have to waste time reapplying buffs).

    Dont get my wrong 15 minute or 3 day duration on motifs would be cool, it gets pretty annoying reapply them all of the time, but I don't think it would be balanced as it would make bards even more powerful then they already are.

    5 points for a 15 second duration increase is pretty excessive though, that's for sure.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Stabbit's Avatar
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    Default I concur

    I have to agree. Whenever I play my bard (which is as little as possible) all I do is frantically click, click, click. It became a little easier when I threw all my motif's on a single macro button, but still. There's like 8 buttons that constantly need to be spammed in a fight. On raids and in some dungeons this becomes difficult because your constantly moving and relocating.

    Please increase the timers on motifs Trion!!!
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbit View Post
    I have to agree. Whenever I play my bard (which is as little as possible) all I do is frantically click, click, click. It became a little easier when I threw all my motif's on a single macro button, but still. There's like 8 buttons that constantly need to be spammed in a fight. On raids and in some dungeons this becomes difficult because your constantly moving and relocating.

    Please increase the timers on motifs Trion!!!
    How the hell did that work? If you put them in the same macro and spam the macro the first skill fires off every time since there isn't a cool down on them. I haven't tried it but I assume that is what will happen.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobjohnson View Post
    Our buffs in combination with each other are very powerful. 1 minute duration would be nice, but any more and I think it's kind of OP...
    I strongly disagree with you.

    Make motifs 150 seconds base and let Bardic Inspiration increase it by 20% per point for a total of 5 minutes.

    Bards motifs -really- need to be increased to 4-5 minutes so the player can play the game instead of working on their repetitive stress disorder.

  6. #6
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    Just make Bard buffs/debuffs on par with the duration of Archon buffs/debuffs and I'd be happy.


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  7. #7
    Xsi
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    What you need to ask is if Bard buffs are any stronger or any weaker than Archmage buffs. Then realize that Archmage buffs last 5 minutes and Bard buffs last 15 seconds (30 seconds after 5 talent points). Archmages also has talents that increase the effectiveness of the buffs (to the point they overwrite many other less powerful versions). In the end, Bards only have two unique buffs not copied by a better version of some other class.

    It's pretty clear on the "quality of life" issue to me. It would be different if the Bard was based on a "twist the song" factor between the various abilities but as it is now, a Bard simply presses the same abilities right after one another.

    From a macro standpoint, it would actually be nice to nerf the motif abilities so that they all have a 6 second cooldown and then slightly tweak them upwards for having that cooldown.
    Last edited by Xsi; 05-24-2011 at 10:26 AM.
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  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    100% agree.

    Feels like unless you intentionally forget about them, all you are doing is reapplying them.

    There are 4 needed (to get the 5th stat buff one) and 5 possible.

    that puts you down to 23-24 seconds left on te first one before you have to reapply.

    Would be nice to do something besides 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc, espcially since it is mind numbingly boring.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    welcome to the vanilla wow paladin

    vanilla wow seal duration - 30 seconds
    vanilla wow blessing duration - 5 minutes

    current wow seal duration - 30 minutes
    current wow blessing duration - 1 hour

    wow made progress because mashing a button even every 5min is too tedious when you are buffing other ppl. motifs should last at least 15 minutes if not a full 30 minutes, they should not be something cast in combat, this goes for archon buffs too, they should also last 30minutes if not a full hour, very silly to make them recast buffs like theirs every 5 minutes, it simply detracts from the playing experience, you get to the point where you are spending more time watching buff timers than watching the fight or *gasp* having fun.
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  10. #10
    Plane Touched Malupit's Avatar
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    This is true, trying to give the buffs constantly while trying to get actually DO SOMETHING during a raid gets very very very tedious and boring REAL quick

  11. #11
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    Agreed, its really really annoying. Makes me never want to play a bard cause of how tedious it is.

    Motiffs should just be persistent auras that reduce our energy regeneration rate by ROUGHLY what they could normally cost over 15 seconds (or 30 seconds, talented).


    Vwualla, same effects to our energy pool, while freeing up 5 GCD's and our sanity.
    Last edited by Duske; 05-24-2011 at 10:49 AM.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Bobjohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    welcome to the vanilla wow paladin.
    That's actually what came to my mind when I first started playing Bard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duske View Post
    Vwualla, same effects to our energy pool, while freeing up 5 GCD's and our sanity.
    Well that's why I was saying a buff to the duration where we'd never have to apply them during the fight could prove to be OP.

    If they were to last 15, 30 min or even an hour, that would free up 5 GCD every 30 seconds! That's 20% more GCDs that we could use for other support options. As far as I'm aware we're in a decent place as far as support goes and a potential 20% increase in our effectiveness of our other support abilities I'd think would just be too much as far as class balance is concerned.

    We've been pretty well balanced with our need to constantly reapply buffs in mind and I'm just saying our other abilities would have to be tweaked to make up for the fact that we'd get to use them a lot more often.

    But then maybe that's what we need. /shrug

    20% is pretty high though.
    Last edited by Bobjohnson; 05-24-2011 at 07:20 PM.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    I don't mind twisting the songs, but I guess that's because I played a bard in EQ so I'm used to it, but I still think it needs a slight change. Possible solutions I can think of would be:
    • Make it similar to EQ bard songs where the motif would "pulse" every 6 seconds until cancelled. When it's cancelled, it will last 30 seconds. With this, if you are feeling extra lazy, you can pop 1 motif and just let it run.
    • Add bonuses for playing songs in a certain order. This has been mentioned several times and I think this would be a really good idea and would add a bit more skill to the game. The good bards would know what "song" to play at any given time
    • Allow motifs to add a combo point and tie the points to the character rather than the target. This would much better allow the bard to build combo points while still being the support they were designed to be. I would think this would have to be a fairly high skill on the bard tree to avoid other souls from abusing it as this mechanic should be exclusive to bards.

    I've enjoyed my bard to this point and plan to keep playing it, but I certainly wouldn't complain if a few of the above changes were made. I don't think I'd really like if motif's were turned into a longer buff as then it would turn even more into mashing cadence and heal/finisher

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Thought I posted this earlier, but guess forums swallowed it.


    My suggestion would be for Motifs to give smaller buffs, and 1 combo point each, and to be stackable up to 5 times (for a largish buff). Split the Motifs into two types, damaging and healing.

    Example:
    Focus/Bravery - applies to enemy targets, does damage equal to weapon + x, and adds a crit/AP buff to the group, for 30 seconds from finisher.
    Tenacity/Regeneration/Grandeur - applies to friendly targets, does a small heal equal to weapon + x, and adds a regen/armor/+heal buff to the group, for 30 seconds from finisher.

    Usage:
    - For a large group crit buff, you target an enemy, do focus/bravery x 5, then finisher of choice
    - For single target healing, you would do regen/tenacity/grandeur x 5, then finisher of choice
    (the one gap in bard finishers is a large single target heal, but a group heal would do as well).

    You would have the same range of finishers available, as well as cadence if you didn't need/want to apply a buff.

    The downside is you wouldn't be able to keep all of them up all the time, and you would have to target appropriately (friend/enemy) depending on what you wanted to do.
    Last edited by MichaelJ; 05-25-2011 at 03:35 AM.

  15. #15
    General of Telara
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    Another way to make it less boring would be to give bards a channeled song that would apply all motifs one after the other.
    There is no skill required to press 1-2-3-4-5 every second when you notice it's time to rebuff. Plus, that skill could also get some cool (and random between a few) animation so the bards would stop looking like some random pop singer only able to play 1 single note over and over.

    But making the order of motifs give a different buff is clearly the best idea. It makes bards more focused around their unique stuff and also adds some skill requirement to the class.

    Oh and 30 seconds is really ******ed, if it's meant to be some very short term buffs bard have to keep up, please up duration to 1 minute at least. 2-3 ideally.

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