+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Questions on the MM secondaries(nightblade, assasin trees)

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    14

    Default Questions on the MM secondaries(nightblade, assasin trees)

    I have not played my rouge for a few weeks and came back to him after my mage hit 50. He is only 29 right now but is running 11 NB 1 ranger, rest in MM. I absolutely love the increases from NB to all my shots and want to get 1 more point into melted skin for the almost perma 5%. I see most people now posting about assasin as the better secondary instead of NB. I was wondering if the 20% proc chance from leathal poison works the same way hellfire blades does? Serrated blades does not work with ranged attack right? Also are there certain abilities that people are picking besides the stealth at 22 in assasin to make it better than the 15% from NB, 20% proc, and 5% dmg bonus?

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    763

    Default

    Let's see if I can put this into perspective. Both Assassin and Nightblade are somewhat equivalent.

    Assuming, your Marksman rotation consists of Swift shot, Rapid fire on cooldown and Hasted shot. The percentage of your damage will work out to be something like:

    Swift Shot = 35% Rapid Fire Shot = 15% Hasted Shot = 15%

    Looking at nightblade:
    If you take an increase of 15% to Finishers you gain about 4.5% damage.
    If you take the 15% to combo point builders you gain another 5.25% damage.
    The only items that can critical strike in your rotation will be the above shots.
    So, melted skin 2/2 = 5% crit of 65% of your damage or a 3.25% increase in damage.
    If you only take 1/2 melted skin then it will only be up about 85% of the time or a 2.76% of your damage.
    The other 3 points can be spent in either +3% overall damage or +9% damage to 35% of your total damage for a 3.15% increase.

    So, assuming 15 points in nightblade = 16% boost to your overall damage.


    Now, looking at Assassin:
    5% critical strike = 3.25% increase in damage.
    Murderous Intent is +4% physical damage to the above shots or 2.6% damage increase. Plus some addition from autoshot and any item which causes extra shots. Also, a boost when using expose weakness.
    Cruel vengeance is up almost 100% of the time as a marksman. This is a flat 10% increase in all your damage.

    This pretty much works out to be a 15.85% increase in overall damage.


    So, in the end it is pretty much a wash. It depends a lot on what other gear you are running. For example, using a items which do non-physical damage will benefit the nightblade more then the assassin, while using items which give extra boost in critical strike will insure to keep up the cruel vengeance uptime.
    Tsarin - Sunrest (PVP-RP) - Eth DPS Cleric (50) - Static

  3. #3
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    63

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanex View Post
    Let's see if I can put this into perspective. Both Assassin and Nightblade are somewhat equivalent.

    Assuming, your Marksman rotation consists of Swift shot, Rapid fire on cooldown and Hasted shot. The percentage of your damage will work out to be something like:

    Swift Shot = 35% Rapid Fire Shot = 15% Hasted Shot = 15%

    Looking at nightblade:
    If you take an increase of 15% to Finishers you gain about 4.5% damage.
    If you take the 15% to combo point builders you gain another 5.25% damage.
    The only items that can critical strike in your rotation will be the above shots.
    So, melted skin 2/2 = 5% crit of 65% of your damage or a 3.25% increase in damage.
    If you only take 1/2 melted skin then it will only be up about 85% of the time or a 2.76% of your damage.
    The other 3 points can be spent in either +3% overall damage or +9% damage to 35% of your total damage for a 3.15% increase.

    So, assuming 15 points in nightblade = 16% boost to your overall damage.


    Now, looking at Assassin:
    5% critical strike = 3.25% increase in damage.
    Murderous Intent is +4% physical damage to the above shots or 2.6% damage increase. Plus some addition from autoshot and any item which causes extra shots. Also, a boost when using expose weakness.
    Cruel vengeance is up almost 100% of the time as a marksman. This is a flat 10% increase in all your damage.

    This pretty much works out to be a 15.85% increase in overall damage.


    So, in the end it is pretty much a wash. It depends a lot on what other gear you are running. For example, using a items which do non-physical damage will benefit the nightblade more then the assassin, while using items which give extra boost in critical strike will insure to keep up the cruel vengeance uptime.
    Based on this information, NB would be better based on the fact that you only spend 11 points vs 17, but also important to realize, both the specs inc dmg by ~16% which is more than ranger increases dmg. Therefore the best MM spec would be 38MM 17 assn 11NB.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    355

    Default

    I was under the impression from multiple people posting parses on this forum that Assassin sub is always more dps. Basically its very hard to beat the 20% increased crit damage, 5% crit, and 4% dmg all in one tree. And thats even with 3 "wasted" points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    Those americans...Everytime there is a blackout, they all start luting.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Oh and dont forget the 10% dmg increase on crit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    Those americans...Everytime there is a blackout, they all start luting.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Noburu View Post
    Oh and dont forget the 10% dmg increase on crit!
    Crits in this game only hit for 1.5x damage..

    a 10 % increase to crit damage is generally only so so. Its not a huge increase in DPS, just burstyness, but over X attacks the effective increase (even with significant crit chance) is pretty small.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Duske View Post
    Crits in this game only hit for 1.5x damage..

    a 10 % increase to crit damage is generally only so so. Its not a huge increase in DPS, just burstyness, but over X attacks the effective increase (even with significant crit chance) is pretty small.
    You must be on nuts. In a game where it is EASY to get over 50% crit chance with buffs, that extra 20% makes a huge difference. All your 500 crits are now are now 566 and say 1800 on finishers are now hitting for 2040. Now if you are hitting for that 5 or 6 out of every 10 hits, how can you say thats not a big boost?
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    Those americans...Everytime there is a blackout, they all start luting.

  8. #8
    Telaran
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    92

    Default Pedestal

    I understand that NB and Sin are roughly equally from the math perspective, but those numbers have been given at roughly 16%. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to be 51 MM for the 30% pedestal? 30%-10%=20%>16%. According to that math, wouldn't it be best to go 51 MM, then sub into NB at least 11-12 then rest into sin/rg for the extra crit? If that is true, would sin be best for virulent poison or would rg be better for splinter shot?

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    763

    Default

    For me, 38 mm/11 nb/17 asn worked out to be exact the same overall dps as 51mm/15 nb/0asn and 51mm/15asn/0inf. I pretty much parse within 30 dps of each other in all cases. That amount though is still lower then if I were go to melee or the ranger build. With a ranger build I can put out on average about 50 more dps when you add in my pet. I don't like the loss of utility though and hate having to micro-manage a pet. In mostly T2 gear with a 36.0 dps gun, I am running generally around 650-750 dps on fights now.
    Tsarin - Sunrest (PVP-RP) - Eth DPS Cleric (50) - Static

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    763

    Default

    My stats at this point are sitting at:

    AP 499
    PC 683
    Hit 208

    To give you a point of reference.
    Tsarin - Sunrest (PVP-RP) - Eth DPS Cleric (50) - Static

  11. #11
    Champion Dao Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    536

    Default

    I asked a similar question some time ago, and arrived at the same conclusion: they end up being roughly the same in terms of output. I think as you get your crit rate higher that Assassin tends to become the better bet, but for me (can only get to around 35% crit with Assassin in my build) I found Nightblade to be the better choice.

    I ended up running a 40 MM/26 NB build. Eradicate isn't super useful outside assist trains or premades, and since I usually pug I find that Shroud of Darkness (and Smother from stealth) are far more useful to me than Eradicate was. Plus, Nightblade gives you a lot of +damage people tend to forget when they say "NB adds +15% damage". At 26 NB, it's actually:

    15% builders/finishers
    3% from Fire and Death Attunement
    5% Melted Skin
    9% to non-physical damage from Unstable State (helps with Master Archer procs, Static Shot, Lightning Fury, Fan Out and Crossfire)
    2-10% non-physical damage from Heat Retention
    30% to every finisher from Heat Retention (as long as you use 5 CP finishers)

    So while Assassin will give you bigger spikes of damage from the extra +crit, NB gives you better damage overall. If you can crit reliably, Assassin is probably the way to go. For me, I prefer NB.
    Unrepentant Gaming Community

    Bacardi: Rogue (Defiant/Sunrest)
    Dao: Cleric (Defiant/Gnarlwood)

  12. #12
    General of Telara Virchow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    906

    Default

    For pure ranged dps, 51/15/0 MM/RN/Whatever. Pedestal and Shadow stack for the ranger skills I believe for normal rotations, and you have the Improved Hit and Run, strafe and Rapid Fire shot for the spikes. Try it once.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts