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Thread: Bard vs Archon?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Bard vs Archon?

    Which is the better support character?

    Which do teams look for the most?

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Hethroin's Avatar
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    A 20 man raid will want 1 of each at least. Never more than 1 archon, but sometimes more than 1 bard.
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  3. #3
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    I sometimes wonder if a Bard is even needed in a Raid -

    Buff Stats - some other class can do that, maybe not as good but they bring more DPS.

    Debuff Targets - Other classes do that just as good while bring more DPS.

    So what does the Bard bring?
    Poor DPS for 25 out of 30 seconds, good temporary buffs that only last 30 seconds (motifs). then for 15 seconds every 2 minutes a very fast regen for mana, power, energy, etc.


    Actually a Bard does bring a little more then this. It's just that at times, this is what it actually feels like.

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    Properly geared, a bard can put up comparable numbers to chloros, healing wise. Bards are very powerful healers if you don't treat them as "GOD, I HAVE TO BARD AGAIN!? I GUESS I'LL JUST MASH CADENCE!"

    Make a new engine with Crystallized Vine and Frozen Deepone Tear and then get either the Spirit Wolf Totem (parties) or the Sacred Heirloom of Eth.

    Those all proc off invigorated spirit (cadence spam), motif of regeneration (whole raid and effortless), and Coda of Restoration ("Big" heals).

    Motif of Regeneration alone can heal the whole raid for a few hundred every tick, proc your trinket, and put a hot + sheild on everyone.


    So get the gear... then spam cadence.

    Quote Originally Posted by mavik View Post
    I sometimes wonder if a Bard is even needed in a Raid -

    Buff Stats - some other class can do that, maybe not as good but they bring more DPS.

    Debuff Targets - Other classes do that just as good while bring more DPS.

    So what does the Bard bring?
    Poor DPS for 25 out of 30 seconds, good temporary buffs that only last 30 seconds (motifs). then for 15 seconds every 2 minutes a very fast regen for mana, power, energy, etc.


    Actually a Bard does bring a little more then this. It's just that at times, this is what it actually feels like.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayden Fox View Post
    Properly geared, a bard can put up comparable numbers to chloros, healing wise. Bards are very powerful healers if you don't treat them as "GOD, I HAVE TO BARD AGAIN!? I GUESS I'LL JUST MASH CADENCE!"

    Make a new engine with Crystallized Vine and Frozen Deepone Tear and then get either the Spirit Wolf Totem (parties) or the Sacred Heirloom of Eth.

    Those all proc off invigorated spirit (cadence spam), motif of regeneration (whole raid and effortless), and Coda of Restoration ("Big" heals).

    Motif of Regeneration alone can heal the whole raid for a few hundred every tick, proc your trinket, and put a hot + sheild on everyone.


    So get the gear... then spam cadence.
    >< for the love of god plz change your avatar, it screams ******. well your name screams ****** too but that picture makes the 10 read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayden Fox View Post
    Properly geared, a ****** can put up comparable numbers to ******, healing wise. ****** are very powerful ****** if you don't ****** them as "GOD, I HAVE TO ****** AGAIN!? I GUESS I'LL JUST MASH ******!"

    ****** ****** ******ity ****** ****** ****** ****** ****** ******.

    So get the gear... then spam cadence.

    god damn animal print hats and 80's sunglasses.
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  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    in a 5man, bards are 100% useless unless they can solo heal. a chloro/archon split can give 90% of archon buffs while also giving ALL the chloro buffs AND main healing t1s and t2s now that they are super easy.

    for raids, you need 1 51pt archon and 1 51pt bard (for joy), so it doesnt matter which is better at this lvl since you need both as all their buffs stack and the bard gives a flat 15% to stats while motifs are up which is insane the more you gear up.
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  7. #7
    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibot View Post
    >< for the love of god plz change your avatar, it screams ******. well your name screams ****** too but that picture makes the 10 read.



    god damn animal print hats and 80's sunglasses.
    ...The fwuck?
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  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Leharic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    for raids, you need 1 51pt archon and 1 51pt bard (for joy), so it doesnt matter which is better at this lvl since you need both as all their buffs stack and the bard gives a flat 15% to stats while motifs are up which is insane the more you gear up.
    5%

    Edit: Archon does more DPS and Bard does more healing.
    Last edited by Leharic; 05-23-2011 at 12:14 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    in a 5man, bards are 100% useless unless they can solo heal. a chloro/archon split can give 90% of archon buffs while also giving ALL the chloro buffs AND main healing t1s and t2s now that they are super easy.

    for raids, you need 1 51pt archon and 1 51pt bard (for joy), so it doesnt matter which is better at this lvl since you need both as all their buffs stack and the bard gives a flat 15% to stats while motifs are up which is insane the more you gear up.
    It's 5% to stats.

    but on topic, bard versus archon? they aren't competing with each other.. they both offer great buffs, and both stack with each-other. So you'd always bring both.

    Now in a 5 man I guess they might compete for a slot, so I'd have to say your best bet is an archon that switches to stormcaller for trash, or a chloro/archon hybrid that heals.

    bard is really only good for 5 mans if your healer is undergeared or flat out sucks

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electros View Post
    It's 5% to stats.

    but on topic, bard versus archon? they aren't competing with each other.. they both offer great buffs, and both stack with each-other. So you'd always bring both.

    Now in a 5 man I guess they might compete for a slot, so I'd have to say your best bet is an archon that switches to stormcaller for trash, or a chloro/archon hybrid that heals.

    bard is really only good for 5 mans if your healer is undergeared or flat out sucks
    oops yes sorry, it's only 5% i rarely use my bard spec so i got confused.
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  11. #11
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    In a Raid situation -

    The REAL problem with the (51 point) Bard is that it doesn't feel like it's really doing anything except putting up the motifs.

    Healing - usually isn't needed if the Raid has good healers. For those people that mentioned the Healing items, other classes can use those same items. Putting out the same effects.

    Damage - there is some.


    Bards really only shine for 5 seconds out of 30. That's when they keep their motifs up. Which is the BIG reason, and probably the only reason, raid leaders want bards in the raid.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayden Fox View Post
    Properly geared, a bard can put up comparable numbers to chloros, healing wise. Bards are very powerful healers

    Make a new engine with Crystallized Vine and Frozen Deepone Tear and then get either the Spirit Wolf Totem (parties) or the Sacred Heirloom of Eth.

    Those all proc off invigorated spirit (cadence spam), motif of regeneration (whole raid and effortless), and Coda of Restoration ("Big" heals).

    Motif of Regeneration alone can heal the whole raid for a few hundred every tick, proc your trinket, and put a hot + sheild on everyone.

    So get the gear.
    Expanding on what you mentioned.

    I prefer Sparkling Extraplanar Gem over Frozen Deepone Tear. SHOE was nerfed for Bards. I do not have one to compare vs Spirit Wolf but Spirit Wolf is worth the trouble to get one.

    As for gear, for healing I recommend crit since AP seems to have very little if any effect on heals. As a 51pt bard, self buffed, I have 44.85% crit.
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....EIdqiqskqz.ih

    As an off healer or non burn fights, I prefer
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...b.qcdqiqskqz.V

    With my gear and the second spec, I can pop out 1100+ heals very frequently.

  13. #13
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator Draegan's Avatar
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    I've cleared both RoS and GSB without a 51 pt bard or Archon. They aren't mandatory. Typically Bard healing will get swallowed with a Sent/Just build and a Warden and put it all into over healing.

    However you definitely want to use 1 archon and 1 bard for the buffs they provide, thats for sure.


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  14. #14
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    23 man at Herald of Discord yesterday and my bard was top HPS at 967

  15. #15
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    cant say I've ever seen any team go "wait we gotta find an archon" though I used to see a few teams looking for bards specifically.

    They both do very different things, sure they can both off some similiar buffs but beyond the basic stat buffs they diverge wildly, archon tends to debuff the enemy while bard buffs the team, archon tends to dps while bard tends to heal.

    And so forth.

    In a raid, 1 of each helps, in a 5 man, either one can help but neither are really necessary.

    Chlorocons probably best 5 man support, but thats cos their basically full healers with their buffs, most people just fill their support slot with dps anyway.

    Arcgaegeo, how much did you heal the tank for though ;)
    Last edited by Dasorine; 05-24-2011 at 01:11 PM.

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