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Thread: Losing threat to Rogues in Patch 1.2

  1. #1
    Sword of Telara
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    Default Losing threat to Rogues in Patch 1.2

    I play a Warrior tank (VK / Reaver / Pally) and in general I can hold threat relatively well in patch 1.1. Somehow in 1.2, I am losing aggro quite consistently to MDPS Rogue classe in particular. Needless to say if the party is huddled behind the named and it turns around for a frontal cleave, the whole group (except tank) pretty much gets 1-2 shot down.

    My opener in general is 2 x Necrotic Wounds (+ Plague Bringer) + Ragestorm + Tempest with points added to threat abilities in Reaver and Pally. Yet I lose aggro quite easily vs Rogues unless I ask for a 5 sec headstart to establish threat.

    Would appreciate if I could get some insight on Rogue threat generation and how I can mitigate this. Was this tweaked in patch 1.2 to higher threat? Did Wars lose threat generating capabilities? Or is it a case of "lol, l2p pls. k thx" to the tank =/.
    Last edited by Blackblade; 05-22-2011 at 11:02 PM.

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    Shadowlander
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    They buffed a lot of Rogue damage to some of our main PvE specs, Bladedancer and Assassination being two. Assassination puts out a lot of up front damage right out of stealth. So, the threat they generate is really really high. Bladedancers begin the fight with Dark Malady (20% increased damage for 8 seconds), and most macros have Blade Tempo (30% increased physical damage) right up front as well. So it makes the beginning of a fight real rough on a tank, especially since 1.2.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    if you have a sab in your party, get them to incriminate you every pull, otherwise if they kill themselves thats what they get (you should be fine in boss fights and on trash, dps should switch targets every combo)

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    Rift Disciple DaniWes's Avatar
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    50 dkp minus for any person that takes agro of the tank cause they are 12 year old trigger happy cooldown spammers
    Rank 4 Cleric (Inquisicar) [retired]
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    Pretty much called it, as they upped damage all around and didn't modify aggro.

    Personal wins aside though, as they said, assassins and blades do a lot of up front damage.

    If they're single targeting stuff they should be alternating targets to spread out hate on occasion or assisting you. At the start of the fight they should also not try to energy starve themselves immediately. Just making sure their energy bars don't fill up will avoid damage loss.

    But as for things you can do personally... whatever hate-generating attack you have, make a macro with it that does something like "mark 7" or some other obscure number. Tell them to figure out what has the most hate based on what has had the "7" the longest throughout the fight, so they know where to distribute their single target damage. I do this as a Riftstalker, not sure if your situation allows for this. But basically, whenever you attack something it will apply a 7, if you switch targets, they'll know what you've switched too and can follow you when they feel they're reaching the threat limit on your previous target.

    One way or another it requires dps to not be stupid and pay attention.

  6. #6
    dmv
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krol View Post
    They buffed a lot of Rogue damage to some of our main PvE specs, Bladedancer and Assassination being two. Assassination puts out a lot of up front damage right out of stealth. So, the threat they generate is really really high. Bladedancers begin the fight with Dark Malady (20% increased damage for 8 seconds), and most macros have Blade Tempo (30% increased physical damage) right up front as well. So it makes the beginning of a fight real rough on a tank, especially since 1.2.
    This is why people thought rogues had bad dps.
    Retired due to lack of PVP content and boring/repetitive game mechanics.

  7. #7
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acro View Post
    Pretty much called it, as they upped damage all around and didn't modify aggro.

    Personal wins aside though, as they said, assassins and blades do a lot of up front damage.

    If they're single targeting stuff they should be alternating targets to spread out hate on occasion or assisting you. At the start of the fight they should also not try to energy starve themselves immediately. Just making sure their energy bars don't fill up will avoid damage loss.

    But as for things you can do personally... whatever hate-generating attack you have, make a macro with it that does something like "mark 7" or some other obscure number. Tell them to figure out what has the most hate based on what has had the "7" the longest throughout the fight, so they know where to distribute their single target damage. I do this as a Riftstalker, not sure if your situation allows for this. But basically, whenever you attack something it will apply a 7, if you switch targets, they'll know what you've switched too and can follow you when they feel they're reaching the threat limit on your previous target.

    One way or another it requires dps to not be stupid and pay attention.
    Thanks Acro. This sounds like a brilliant idea to identify targets. I would try this.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    DPS taking agro on trash isn't a big problem. Boom, dead dps and laughs all around. After the rogue buff I did it all the time on trash, but you learn to manage it and then start getting killed less often.

    As for bossfights, it is a problem if the dps takes agro. I don't macro my CD's to the same button as everything else, so I can actually avoid popping it the first couple of percent of fights. Once the tank has held agro for 20 secs or so it's quite unlikely that a dps horny player will pull the boss off, but it happens. If it does happen the tank should check his macros and build, and if nothing is wrong slap the dpser around a bit and tell him to chill

  9. #9
    Telaran
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    This is not a tank problem but a dps problem. Aside from dealing damage, the only two things good dps need to do are stay alive and not pull aggro. If you can't do those you are not good dps. It's not hard if you the fight, and your rotations.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara Fluffycalico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentraedi View Post
    This is not a tank problem but a dps problem. Aside from dealing damage, the only two things good dps need to do are stay alive and not pull aggro. If you can't do those you are not good dps. It's not hard if you the fight, and your rotations.
    Except when you join group that has a tank you dont know or one who just got a new piece of gear or changed their spec then you have no idea how much aggro they can hold.

    PS> Unless you are over 1400 DPS you should not be pulling aggro off a raid tank.

  11. #11
    Telaran Ayeras's Avatar
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    I don't think it's your fault OP.
    Some melee rogue specs crit really hard even before 1.2. I play a assasin/bladedancer build, and if i got a lucky string of crits I would grab aggro from the tank and die miserably quite often... I'm slowly learning not to be a crit ***** and go a little slower:]
    Just tell them to hold back a lil!

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffycalico View Post
    Except when you join group that has a tank you dont know or one who just got a new piece of gear or changed their spec then you have no idea how much aggro they can hold.

    PS> Unless you are over 1400 DPS you should not be pulling aggro off a raid tank.
    Still, if you're dps in a pug/lfg group and don't know the tank -- go easy a bit and see what they can handle. I've seen many dps in in the first trash pull of 5 mans because they go balls to the wall. If you don't know your tank, don't ramp it to fast until you figure our their tanking. This is also the responsibility of the dps, not the tank.

    I play sabo, and have incriminate, which eliminates the guess work. I actually HELP tanks keep aggro

  13. #13
    Soulwalker Apocryphal's Avatar
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    It's a dps rogue's job to dps. It's a tank's job to hold aggro.

    If you can't hold aggro off of your rogues, or anyone else for that matter, then you should think about changing up your spec. I shouldn't have to worry about pulling aggro 4 or 5 rotations into a fight because your threat sucks.

  14. #14
    Koe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentraedi View Post
    Still, if you're dps in a pug/lfg group and don't know the tank -- go easy a bit and see what they can handle. I've seen many dps in in the first trash pull of 5 mans because they go balls to the wall. If you don't know your tank, don't ramp it to fast until you figure our their tanking. This is also the responsibility of the dps, not the tank.

    I play sabo, and have incriminate, which eliminates the guess work. I actually HELP tanks keep aggro
    If a tank can't hold agro it's a spec problem, plain and simple.

    If I don't know the tank, I want to let them what I'm going to do. If they can't hold agro, fine, I'll die and slow the group down until the tank gets it together. There's no reason to pull agro off a competent tank in a T2 unless you're fully raid geared and they're not.
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  15. #15
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Dunharrow's Avatar
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    This should be in the warrior forums. Rogues cant tell you how to play as a warrior and knowing why we generate threat won't help you keep aggro.

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