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Thread: What's wrong with rogues? I need to know.

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default What's wrong with rogues? I need to know.

    I am only level 14, my rogue is my first char in Rift and I just started last week. I am kind of confused because I see threads about rogues being the best tanks and other posts varying from, "rogue DPS SUCKS!" to "my rogue is doing sick DPS, l2p noob."

    So, what's up here guys?

    Is a rogue an unwanted class? Is it subpar for the damage hungry but sufficient in a raid or party scenario? Does a raid only want a tank and 19 mages for DPS?

    Basically, what's wrong with being a rogue because I am too new to know the difference between people simply complaining and legitimate concerns.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Champion
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    Nothing. We're a little worse overall at certain aspects of the games but all the complaining (raid dps, having difficulty soloing clerics, and I dunno, whatever else the melodramatic over-exaggerators are up to this week) is largely talk for the sake of talk. If you've enjoyed rogue/ranger classes from other games, you're going to enjoy them in this one too.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Depends on the spec.

    Currently, Assassins are kinda gimp in PvP since pretty much any class can outheal/outlast the damage. You can play everything right, and still lose. On the other hand, if you go MM - you can beat pretty much any healing class without trying at all.

    PvE wise, we're okay but not as superb as a "rogue" archetype should be in MMO standards.

  4. #4
    Plane Walker Shanst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makix View Post
    Depends on the spec.

    Currently, Assassins are kinda gimp in PvP since pretty much any class can outheal/outlast the damage. You can play everything right, and still lose. On the other hand, if you go MM - you can beat pretty much any healing class without trying at all.

    PvE wise, we're okay but not as superb as a "rogue" archetype should be in MMO standards.
    LOL except rogues in PVE are the best DPS archetype right now post 1.2. They now edge out warriors. Battle bards are great in pvp as well as MM being a beast. Assassins may struggle with a healer, but they **** everything else that can't heal. They stack a few bleeds and slip away and just laugh as that person goes from full to dead. To the OP. Rogues are just fine. Just too many people that got used to rogues in other games that can stun lock from 100-0 and gank anyone and everyone instantly.

  5. #5
    General of Telara joker225's Avatar
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    At the moment nothing is wrong with rogues.
    They do competitive PvE dps and tanking.
    MM is a beast in PvP.
    PvP is actually really balanced now.
    All classes have roles that can be competitve in PvP (no, I am not eradicate MM)

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    Over-all, the Rogue as a class is fine. There's places where everyone would like to see tweaks. The problem is, any of those tweaks might make the Rogue too powerful.

    Another problem you have is that it seems like the Rogue, as a class, seems to draw the most of the immature crowd of people that want a "I Win" button instead of working for it.

    So the few threads that might supply helpful info have a tendency to get derailed into flame wars.

    Another issue the class faces is that (my guess) makes up about 40% of the classes population. While the other 60% is split between Clerics, Mages, and Fighters. Which means it's just a little harder to find that guild or party you want to join if you're playing a Rogue. Just due to the spot is already filled by one.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser
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    Try a 51 pt Asn / 15 Infil in pvp and you wont be saying they are gimped. 1 macro and 2 finishers. So easy to play and so much damage. You have Anathema as the healing debuff for clerics. You can take them down fairly easy with this.

    Macro I use:
    #show Savage Strike
    cast Serpent Strike
    cast Backstab
    cast Puncture
    cast Savage Strike

    Sadly, this build is fairly decent in PvE as well if you go with NB/Rang (crit). Same thing but 3 finishers.

    32 BD is currently the top PvE dps build. MM is also good for ranged. I have tried some builds that compare to Sozu's ranger guide for damage (no pet).

    In T2 + a few GSB/GP weapons, the 32BD build gets around 1.1-1.2k dps. MM gets around 900-1kish. I have been able to get the 51pt Asn PvE build to about 900 dps pve. I have 2 weapons of GSB quality (no relics or Raid set pieces). Mostly T2 with some R4/5 gear.
    Last edited by Natir; 05-22-2011 at 12:01 AM.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Shanst's Avatar
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    Honestly, Rogue is by far the most balanced archetype in my opinion. We have multiple specs that do really nice dps(granted ranged isn't as high as melee, but atleast we have ranged dps comparable to mages if not higher), they have the best support role in the game and while 1.2 has gotten better for warriors, rogues are still the most optimal tanks for high spell damage boss fights. And as its also been said, there are plenty of PVP builds that are completely viable as well. Hell, had you played a month and a half ago, there would have been dozens of threads a day made about how OP saboteur was.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker225 View Post
    PvP is actually really balanced now.
    Are you ****tin' me?

    PvP is nothing but balanced.
    Diminishing returns are completly broken and instead of looking for a way to balance out CC they just said screw the CC and make everyone immune.
    If you are not cookie-cutter specced like everyone else, you are useless. Just try being a Champ or paragon warrior. A shaman or Druid Cleric. And how about trying out Bladedancer. And where did Nightblade go since the patch? All I can see now is... Pyro, Necro, Locks, Wardens, Sentinels, Purifiers, Marksmans, Assassins, a couple Bards and Saboters, Riftblade, Paladins and Reavers. That's a total of 13 souls in a game where you have a total of 36 different souls to choose from. The average lifespan of a player when entering combat in PvP is about what? 5 to 8 seconds if you are lucky. What's on your left? It's a fulminate crit! DEAD.
    It's balanced for sure.
    Last edited by Snap; 05-22-2011 at 12:10 AM.
    Cheesecakesandwich - Mage 70 | Wrecking - Warrior 70
    Italiansausage - Cleric 70 | Snaplemouton - Rogue 67
    Primalsandwich - Primalist 70
    I'm a grand connoisseur of the most delicate dish known as the poutine.

  10. #10
    Rift Master Josaline's Avatar
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    I could say the truth of the matter is... but flaming I do not need.

    Every class in this game has a place. Every raid needs rogues, mages, clerics, warrior class. As for dungeons I find no problem getting groups. Dependant on which instance you are doing, what boss you are about to encounter, or if your the out doors type, your builds will suit the environment. Having four roles enables you to create your Rogue into four different types of Rogue. This applies to all classes, you will change as needed. I am not sure if the fifth role has been introduced yet, to be honest I have not checked.

    Every class has a unique skill that is beneficial to a certain situation and because of this there certainly is a place for all. I am a Rogue and have yet to encounter at any time that one or none of my roles are not welcomed.

    As the game is fairly new, there will be many more adjustments to come. So play your rouge and you decide if you like it.
    "Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it" - Ghandi

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara Ferathka's Avatar
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    There is nothing wrong with rogues. Some people just QQ because they die, so they then say that rogues are bad or this class needs a nerf or that class needs a nerf. Just play your toon....enjoy your toon...and you will be fine. Sometimes you will win and sometimes you will loose.
    Stupid People P*** Me Off

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    Perhaps the threads you are looking for are pre-patch or from people who just wanna oneshot people the pyro way. :P

    Rogues are fine. Imo they are the most balanced calling atm. All of our souls are working quite properly and have their place in pvp or pve. You have lots of versatility and you can excel at what you want to do if you spec for it.

  13. #13
    Champion Vaeranth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    Are you ****tin' me?

    PvP is nothing but balanced.
    Diminishing returns are completly broken and instead of looking for a way to balance out CC they just said screw the CC and make everyone immune.
    If you are not cookie-cutter specced like everyone else, you are useless. Just try being a Champ or paragon warrior. A shaman or Druid Cleric. And how about trying out Bladedancer. And where did Nightblade go since the patch? All I can see now is... Pyro, Necro, Locks, Wardens, Sentinels, Purifiers, Marksmans, Assassins, a couple Bards and Saboters, Riftblade, Paladins and Reavers. That's a total of 13 souls in a game where you have a total of 36 different souls to choose from. The average lifespan of a player when entering combat in PvP is about what? 5 to 8 seconds if you are lucky. What's on your left? It's a fulminate crit! DEAD.
    It's balanced for sure.
    I enjoy how you list 2-3 souls from each of the callings as being viable and then piss and moan about the game not being balanced.

    People like you are cancer in communities such as these.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander Gatori's Avatar
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    The major problem with rogues is that they are way too many since people realized it's one of the easiest and funniest class to play in this game.

    Check any starting area and count the number of rogues. Just before they introduced the free trial 85%+ of the new characters were rogues.

    That statistic is a bit messed up at the moment because of the huge number of trials - they don't have an idea which classes are FOTM and roll whatever they think is cool. And they basically don't care that much.

    But the majority of alts are rogues. Just because people are tired of swimming upstream.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    Pre-1.2 I don't think the game was very balanced. I'm in a larger pvp guild and am the only rogue who still plays from release.

    Now that 1.2 has hit, I think the game is definitely more balanced. I do see people complain about MM, but if you ask them what their views are on balance... the issues really is that they expected a continuation of where a healer could ignore 3 rogues on them not even have to kite. Now 2 rogues on a healer will take one out. To me, that's the way it should be, for others this means rogues are overpowered now.

    They are also squishy, but have some short term survivability tools which can be enough to escape in pvp. Some think that if they get someone's health low, it should be an automatic kill. Personally, I think the escape tools are what makes being squishier then a mage balanced in the first place. You be the judge.

    I play a cleric and a rogue at 50 right now. When I first hit 50 a rogue jumped me out of stealth... I detaunted and healed myself up to full in seconds, so he restealthed and gave up. A fresh 50 and an assassin attacking me out of stealth had 0 chance of killing me and was more of an annoyance then threat. When I saw the game from a non-rogue perspective I was shocked.

    I think the bigger issue about class balance is people's preconceptions about what X class should be able to perform. Rogues started out so weak, some people just can't handle that rogues are not a weak calling anymore. I think it's far more balanced now. When I join warfronts, it's not 'they have more mages and are going to win' it's 'I see X premade so it will be challange'... In other words it's finally the player vs the class that's deciding pvp. That's a definite improvement.

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