Because eradicate is a crutch ability that you don't need in any shape or form to kill anyone or any class?Originally Posted by PVStar
Because eradicate is a crutch ability that you don't need in any shape or form to kill anyone or any class?
Einziger - Dayblind
Rank 6 Rogue
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Take that 39th point in MM and move it to NB, and you have one of the top MM PvE specs.I use 39mm/17sin/10nb
I've done the math, I can't find a better looking spec then this for dmg output. I'm not willing to sacrifice burst dmg for eradicate
I am curious about swapping out 10nb for 10 inf, just been lazy!
Not always true. Yes, sometimes it's smarter to dps rather than purge.
But sometimes you absolutely need eradicate when dealing with whitefall flag carriers or other WFs flag cappers.
Purge guardian phase? Say goodbye to somewhere around 5k hps on a decently geared runner.
Annoying NB cooldowns? Lol, purge, dead. Chloro with LGV? pop. I could go on.
Eradicate does have its place and saying it is always a crutch is not only wrong, it's foolish thinking.
This thread made my head hurt.
Don't forget to support Dual Targeting in SWTOR and Prime Online.
We didn't get it here, but perhaps we can help make the next games into what they should be.
I love how someone came here and tried to prove mathmatically that those points in Assasin were better.
Except calculated for an extra 50% crit damage so he lost.
Then someone tried to say that you'd need 50% crit to justify 1% in damage blah blah blah. 60% crit on empowered shot/deadeye, 45% crit on all others. That's about right, especially during Imp. Hit and Run.
Nobody has linked a talent build that beats the 51MM/8Ass/7Ranger build.
****ing *****, I know what I'm talking about, all these cute little builds you've mentioned? I've tried.
Any build with less than 38 points is NOT WORTH IT. You lose TREMENDOUS amounts of DPS due to being energy starved on a CD with a lot of uptime and you give up one of the most OP abilities in the game.
Overall what the last 5 pages of posters did was prove me correct.
46 AP, 15% crit (to total 45%, 60% with emp/deadeye), 8% damage, 30% pedestal, etc > beats the other 20 crap builds posted in damage.
Even the guy with the incorrect crit value modifier said it was a 36% damage increase, whereas my build is a 38% damage increase with pedestal and significantly more crit + purge.
Last edited by Megatf; 05-19-2011 at 06:20 PM.
It hurt your head because one idiot tried to sound like he knew what he was talking about, and how dare I PvP with a 51 talent point build.
39th point gives me additonal knockbacks for repelling shot, which is priceless in pvp imoTake that 39th point in MM and move it to NB, and you have one of the top MM PvE specs.
I've already noted above that I'm working under the assumption that you have 44MM for Eradicate and INF as one of your souls for break free. If you go 40 or less in MM NB IMO is preferable (if you can give up the perma-stealth) because of SoD, Heat Retention, and possible Fel Blades if you want to give up Improved Hit & Run.
edit: FYI procs can't crit
Last edited by Skyro; 05-19-2011 at 06:51 PM.
Noted on procs not critting, that increases the damage disparity then in favor for the NB although only depending on the weighting of master archer (which is substantial but not argument worthy).
My math was wrong based on an incorrect presumption, but in fact, it hurts your build in comparison.
Before I begin you stated this in a post
"Headshot (An instant finisher that does comparable damage if you are getting LOS'd, kited, or need to move)"
Hasted shot does more damage
Rank 10 Head Shot: 354 damage with 5 CP.
Rank 10 Hasted Shot: 474 damage, plus the buff.
Both are instant cast, no CD, same energy cost.
Why would you ever use head shot?
To the math!
Now you dont have any sort of crit damage multiplier, and crits are 1.5X damage, the effect of every 1% of crit is there for a .5% increase in your total dps. So this is actually a pretty easy one to prove. This compares 2 people with the same gear, ap and crit chances before applying your classes. Since you have Snipers Pedestle and none of my calcs included pedestles, I will simply give you 20% bonus damage on the calcs for it for the difference.
NB(40 mm/26 nb)
23% (total) damage to CP builders
53% (total) damage to finishers (assumign 5/5 heat retention, which you will get any time outside of 3x empower spam, at which point you may not have this buff every finisher)
23% damage increase to master archer, dusk strike, twilight force, scourge of darkness and poisons. The average value of Heat Retention was used here (5%).
MM 51/*** 8/Ranger 7
Physical Damage Bonus: 32%=5% (from 10% crit increase) + 8% (killing focus and murderous intent) +20% (pedestal):
Non Physical Damage Bonus: None, since all of your non physical damage proc and procs cannot crit.
So you have a 32% bonus throughout, your improved hit and run procs will hit pretty hard as a result. During improved hit and rub, the NB build is using 3 empower to every 1 finisher, meaning the bonus from heat retention is applied to 3 out of every 5 finishers. Given that rotation, the total 'net' bonus to improved hit and run and the NB is 27.5%. I should note, this is the time in the NB build where it compares the WORST to your build. It should also be noted that the NB finishers are outside the Hit and Run period going to be hitting significantly harder (21% harder or so).
You have nothing to enhance your procs, so poisons and master archer 23% in favor for the NB build.
It isnt a bad build in terms of damage, it does more than a pure assassin at low crit rating I believe, but i believe at some magic number the assassin build will take over (I dont care to do the math here, not my inerest). MM/NB out damages it however. You might not see as many CRITS on your screen, but your non crits and crit values will be higher, and overall more damage.
Last edited by Duske; 05-19-2011 at 08:34 PM.
Other concerns about your MM/RNG/Asn build, besides it not being great damage (sorry but after reviewing it, it really isnt. The pedestal is a nice, but pedestal up time is no where near 100% (70% might be exaggerating it, but lets go with that), but you lack any sort of situational powers. Someone gets to melee with you, your only tools are the ones from marksmen. A MM/NB has A) twilight shelter for difficult one vs one fights, exceptionally good vs other marksmen and bursty classes; they jump you, hit it, take 80% less damage for 8 seconds while dealing 40% less. Amazing when you know people just popped cooldowns on you. B) ebon furry can allow you to spam dusk strikes/twilight force to burn them down C) your stealth options are crappy. Openers for a assassin are all melee, you wont have paralyzing strike; its effectively no option.
A NB can always open with dark malady, and have an additional 20% damage buff to start hit and run with (or strafe), as well as a RANGED sap. Alternativly you can open with a 5 second silence and damage dealer, and then hit them with a silence arrow, potentially locking down a cleric for 10 seconds.
So beyond the damage concerns, there it utility and burst concerns i have with your build.
If Megatf's build works for him, stop trying to ram your cookiecutter specs down his throat.
For those of you who don't know who Megatf is,
He was one of the best arena hunters in wow, running hunter to glad and rank 1 in multiple seasons on a competative bg - while hunters were considered garbage in arena.
The guy knows how to pvp, the guy has skill - and to the boarderline trolls on him, he'd probably **** your face off 1v1 with his "******ed" spec all things being equal.
Really? He sounds like a complete ***. He has a spec that has not viability outside of being in a premade, and even then its not ideal. The fact he can pull it off is neither here nor there; he stated it was the best spec for pure damage.
It's not.
No one went out to find your friend and bash his build. He came here, multiple times gloated it was "the best" and dared others to prove it wrong. Mathematically its damage is inferior. If he does well with it, he would do BETTER with another build. That is all there is to it. Him being a good hunter in wow means **** to; most every arena spec in wow was a cookie cutter build as it was. His success in another game doesnt mean his knowledge of mechanics is superior, all it means is he probably is a better player with better target judgments or reaction speed, or that he is generally on good teams, etc.
TLDR Version: no one bashed your friend, he offered a challenge that his build was -the best- MM for damage, its not, that is all.
Last edited by Duske; 05-19-2011 at 11:47 PM.
I for one laugh every time I see a sniper pedestal on the ground in a warfront. My question is though, with all your lil builds and none of you using the inf tree, how do you 1v2 any casters?
I run two builds right now:
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...RVzNudo.VcbMho - For fights when I don't need erradicate
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M....EMtRVzNudR.0M - For fights when I do
Both of these builds are extremely effective and I don't really ever run in a premade.
Yeah, nobody "trolled" your friend. Your friend came in and started bragging. He boasted about his build having the highest damage and how no one could come up with better. He was given numbers that dispute it and those numbers prove him wrong. No one cares what build he uses, just that he bragged and was wrong. I don't care who or what he did in another game, but he needs to get his facts straight: WoW doesn't make him some hot **** here. His only "proof" was statements and feelings on his dps. No parses. No numbers. Nothing. Maybe you should take a look at what he said before you jump in to defend him: I'm not sure you even know what he said.
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