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Thread: Daggers are completely pointless?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Daggers are completely pointless?

    so with weapon speed not affecting abilities and normalised proc chance, only dps and stats of a weapon count. Daggers i have seen have a lower dps than their 1h counterparts, so doesnt that make them 'dead loot'? enlightenment would be appreciated thanks

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    ehmm where you see this, you likely not comparing equal rank/rarity weps then cause the dps WILL be the same

    in regards to proc while yes it is normalized over a longer fight it would make little difference but on shorter fight a dagger would get a slight edge as it takes short for the normalization to actually get the equal amount of procing due to more attacks, so if you are fighting one of the colossus it would make no diff if you use an axe or a dagger, but if you fighting a few thrash fights you could sometimes see a better proccing with axes but other times also a lot worse since there is less attack and thus it would get a lot more "jumpy statistic"
    Quote Originally Posted by Iansanity View Post
    It was even funnier in certain other games; where a leather clad cow (heh heh) then shapeshifts into a completely unarmoured bear-tank... but no one really minded that... because it's maaaagic (whereas a mage isn't?!).

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara Raynald's Avatar
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    eh what are you smokin gummi?

    That`s not the reason at all.

    Daggers, swinging faster, will proc poisons faster (since they proc on autoattack hits) so classes that rely alot on it such as sins or nb`s get more bang for the buck.

    Axes/swords, however, generate more "threat" due to hitting harder, and also have the higher flat dps number on it. This makes them more ideal for classes such as riftstalker tanks (not such a big issue anymore I guess but still) or bladedancers (whose attacks scale with their offhand weapon! Wh00t. One of the rare few classes that does so)

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Chillin View Post
    so with weapon speed not affecting abilities and normalised proc chance, only dps and stats of a weapon count. Daggers i have seen have a lower dps than their 1h counterparts, so doesnt that make them 'dead loot'? enlightenment would be appreciated thanks
    Do you have a source for this?

    It is how I imagined it to be designed, but I have never found confirmation.

  5. #5
    Telaran Satsujinma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marne View Post
    Do you have a source for this?

    It is how I imagined it to be designed, but I have never found confirmation.
    they changed it in between beta 4 and 5.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by GummiBear View Post
    ehmm where you see this, you likely not comparing equal rank/rarity weps then cause the dps WILL be the same

    in regards to proc while yes it is normalized over a longer fight it would make little difference but on shorter fight a dagger would get a slight edge as it takes short for the normalization to actually get the equal amount of procing due to more attacks, so if you are fighting one of the colossus it would make no diff if you use an axe or a dagger, but if you fighting a few thrash fights you could sometimes see a better proccing with axes but other times also a lot worse since there is less attack and thus it would get a lot more "jumpy statistic"
    i was talking about quest rewards, dagger always has less dps than other 1h-sword,axe,mace

    so your saying that they are only useful on such short fights that a slower weapon wouldnt have time to proc? seems pointless to me

  7. #7
    Plane Walker
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    But really, daggers have the best stats for a rogue..damage doesn't matter a lot between swords and daggers.

    Go for high dex and crit.
    Last edited by Gill; 05-19-2011 at 02:49 AM. Reason: Reply to a post that was removed
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  8. #8
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Chillin View Post
    i was talking about quest rewards, dagger always has less dps than other 1h-sword,axe,mace

    so your saying that they are only useful on such short fights that a slower weapon wouldnt have time to proc? seems pointless to me
    Even if that's true for leveling quests it stops being true for gear at 50. The dps on them will be the same. And at 50 is the only time itemization is important.
    Last edited by Gill; 05-19-2011 at 02:50 AM. Reason: Reply to a post that was removed
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser
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    DPS and stats are more important, but for Assassins and NB, you should opt for the faster attack speed if all other things are equal.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Try to equip a vendor bought (no stats) dagger and parse yourself autoattacking with weapon enchants for a few minutes. Then repeat the same with an axe with the same dps. Unless the RNG really hates you you'll see a higher output from the daggers. Now repeat the same with whetstones and the difference should skyrocket unless something has changed in 1.2 or later

    Weapon damage is normalized, but the procs are "better" with a faster weapon. Even if taking ppm into account having a faster attack speed increases your chance of actually proccing the enchants as fast as possible after the internal CD expires.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Reyo's Avatar
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    Perhaps OP picked up the mage daggers, hence the decrease in dps.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raynald View Post
    eh what are you smokin gummi?

    That`s not the reason at all.

    Daggers, swinging faster, will proc poisons faster (since they proc on autoattack hits) so classes that rely alot on it such as sins or nb`s get more bang for the buck.
    which is pretty much what a said

    Quote Originally Posted by Raynald View Post
    Axes/swords, however, generate more "threat" due to hitting harder, and also have the higher flat dps number on it. This makes them more ideal for classes such as riftstalker tanks (not such a big issue anymore I guess but still) or bladedancers (whose attacks scale with their offhand weapon! Wh00t. One of the rare few classes that does so)
    hitting harder? true? so they generate more threat PER HIT, but over time the DPS is still the same and thus the threat is as well
    Quote Originally Posted by Iansanity View Post
    It was even funnier in certain other games; where a leather clad cow (heh heh) then shapeshifts into a completely unarmoured bear-tank... but no one really minded that... because it's maaaagic (whereas a mage isn't?!).

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