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Thread: Rogue vs Mage

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    Plane Touched Baluba's Avatar
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    Default Rogue vs Mage

    Hello you rogue rascals you. Most MMOs try to balance the classes so one class is not completely OP over another. Unfortunately Trion are not one of them.

    Would like to hear if theres any valid reason why a MM/Ranger can root me, stun me, fk up my instant casts and silence me from afar and then drop me in 4 seconds wo there really not being anything mage can do about it. Oh yeah, you can say mage has the same options. Pyro Ie. can disarm, stun and root from afar and put out some good dmg. But then again, they have less armor, and they got long casttimes. Rogues can just strafe away happily, put up some crazy speedboosts and just do whatever they please. Theres not really any way to escape. And you might say, yeye, but we re mainly melee spec, and mages own us there.. Except, no they dont, stealthed rogues can smack down a mage in seconds before the mage even get a chance to enjoy any form of CC immunity.

    If the mage by some miracle survive the first spike with a shrivel of hp left, manage to knockback, squirrel or whatever, its again just a matter of seconds before the rogue is immune, put on some crazy speedbosts and smack down the remainder of life on the poor mage.

    If the rogue suck for some reason, and the mage by some miracle gets healed or should get the upper hand, then u can just slip away, rince and repeat.

    I have nothing against dying fast as long as it gets compensated in ie. dmg or other utility. Atm mages are just subpar ranged rogues with less dmg and far less survival, and a very limited choice of classes. In pvp rogues have ranged dps, melee, healer. Mages have um.. ranged dps. CC builds that used to be fun are completely broken with 1.2.

    So Im sorry my rogue friends, you may rejoice your free faction for now, but with the crazy unbalance in pvp atm it cant last, given the dev team in Trion arent either completely ******ed, or they all happen to have rerolled rogues. Havent played such an unbalanced game as caster since i played necro against gemmed guardians in AoC.

    Just my two cents. Have a nice day.
    Last edited by Baluba; 05-17-2011 at 09:25 AM.

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    Sez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baluba View Post
    Would like to hear if theres any valid reason why a MM/Ranger can root me, stun me, fk up my instant casts and silence me from afar and then drop me in 4 seconds wo there really not being anything mage can do about it.
    Odd, I thought they changed CC to make you immune to it after the second CC. I think you might be exaggerating, because that's what people do when they die.
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    Ato
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baluba View Post
    Atm mages are just subpar ranged rogues with less dmg and far less survival, and a very limited choice of classes. In pvp rogues have ranged dps, melee, healer. Mages have um.. ranged dps. CC builds that used to be fun are completely broken with 1.2.

    So Im sorry my rogue friends, you may rejoice your free faction for now, but with the crazy unbalance in pvp atm it cant last, given the dev team in Trion arent either completely ******ed, or they all happen to have rerolled rogues. Havent played such an unbalanced game as caster since i played necro against gemmed guardians in AoC.

    Just my two cents. Have a nice day.
    It could be that. Or, more likely your just bad. As a Pyro a MM stands no chance vs you, unless you suck of course. Also, Bard is no healer and FYI Chrolo is! so you missed that one, only thing mages don't have is melee DPS.





    (edited to fix a typo)
    Last edited by Ato; 05-17-2011 at 09:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sez View Post
    Odd, I thought they changed CC to make you immune to it after the second CC. I think you might be exaggerating, because that's what people do when they die.
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    Wether I suck or not is pretty much irrelevant. The question is what by the above mentioned issues you think make the game "balanced", and how so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ato View Post
    It could be that. Or, more likely your just bad. As a Pyro a MM stands no chance vs you, unless you suck of course. Also, Bard is no healer and FYI Chrolo is! so you missed that one, only thing mages don't have is melee DPS.





    (edited to fix a typo)
    Im talking valid choices. Chloro is not one. Chloro is with its horrid casttimes and no selvsurvival basically free kill for everyone cept other casters.

    You still fail to answer what you think is balanced in the rogue vs mage setup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baluba View Post
    Hello you rogue rascals you. Most MMOs try to balance the classes so one class is not completely OP over another. Unfortunately Trion are not one of them.

    Would like to hear if theres any valid reason why a MM/Ranger can root me, stun me, fk up my instant casts and silence me from afar and then drop me in 4 seconds wo there really not being anything mage can do about it. Oh yeah, you can say mage has the same options. Pyro Ie. can disarm, stun and root from afar and put out some good dmg. But then again, they have less armor, and they got long casttimes. Rogues can just strafe away happily, put up some crazy speedboosts and just do whatever they please. Theres not really any way to escape. And you might say, yeye, but we re mainly melee spec, and mages own us there.. Except, no they dont, stealthed rogues can smack down a mage in seconds before the mage even get a chance to enjoy any form of CC immunity.

    If the mage by some miracle survive the first spike with a shrivel of hp left, manage to knockback, squirrel or whatever, its again just a matter of seconds before the rogue is immune, put on some crazy speedbosts and smack down the remainder of life on the poor mage.

    If the rogue suck for some reason, and the mage by some miracle gets healed or should get the upper hand, then u can just slip away, rince and repeat.

    I have nothing against dying fast as long as it gets compensated in ie. dmg or other utility. Atm mages are just subpar ranged rogues with less dmg and far less survival, and a very limited choice of classes. In pvp rogues have ranged dps, melee, healer. Mages have um.. ranged dps. CC builds that used to be fun are completely broken with 1.2.

    So Im sorry my rogue friends, you may rejoice your free faction for now, but with the crazy unbalance in pvp atm it cant last, given the dev team in Trion arent either completely ******ed, or they all happen to have rerolled rogues. Havent played such an unbalanced game as caster since i played necro against gemmed guardians in AoC.

    Just my two cents. Have a nice day.
    Don't blame rogues, blame the hilariously bad CC system Trion implement in 1.2. Seriously, the DR system is atrocious and snares should never have been put on it.

    I play a rogue and a mage, mages in the right spec (pyro/sc) can still do good damage, but you simply won't be survivable. Work in a team to mask that weakness and blow stuff up. Don't go pugging it like a solo-hero.
    Last edited by Snyrf; 05-17-2011 at 09:35 AM.

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    Ato
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baluba View Post
    Wether I suck or not is pretty much irrelevant. The question is what by the above mentioned issues you think make the game "balanced", and how so?
    What above mentioned issues? The fact that it takes a Marksman 5x as many GCD's to kill someone compared to a Pyro? Or the fact that your confused on bard heals and seemingly forgot about Chrolo? Just because you have not figured out how to play yet does not cause an imbalance. The only "broken" skill we really have is eradicate. Now sure some fine tuning is needed still but hardly blaring imbalances (especially not in favor of rogue). As far as people re-rolling, that is what the FOTM crowd does. Healers are the devil, with eradicate the devil dies so people are having fun with that next patch they will shift to whatever the forums are crying about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyrf View Post
    Don't blame rogues, blame the hilariously bad CC system Trion implement in 1.2. Seriously, the DR system is atrocious and snares should never have been put on it.

    I play a rogue and a mage, mages in the right spec (pyro/sc) can still do good damage, but you simply won't be survivable. Work in a team to mask that weakness and blow stuff up. Don't go pugging it like a solo-hero.
    Well, the problem is any good team will always target the mages first, heck I do it myself. Simple reason is not because they are so much of a treat, but because they die so ridiculously fast that theres no way a cleric can outheal it. And the point of just staying out of harms way cause you die in 2 sec doesnt really either contribute to making the game "balanced" do it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baluba View Post
    Well, the problem is any good team will always target the mages first, heck I do it myself. Simple reason is not because they are so much of a treat, but because they die so ridiculously fast that theres no way a cleric can outheal it. And the point of just staying out of harms way cause you die in 2 sec doesnt really either contribute to making the game "balanced" do it?
    I can say with absolute certainty that properly supported pyros/stormcallers can and often does put out game-changing burst damage (aoe in the case of SC).

    Those hated eradicate MMs that everyone talks about? Very nearly as fragile as mages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ato View Post
    What above mentioned issues? The fact that it takes a Marksman 5x as many GCD's to kill someone compared to a Pyro? Or the fact that your confused on bard heals and seemingly forgot about Chrolo? Just because you have not figured out how to play yet does not cause an imbalance. The only "broken" skill we really have is eradicate. Now sure some fine tuning is needed still but hardly blaring imbalances (especially not in favor of rogue). As far as people re-rolling, that is what the FOTM crowd does. Healers are the devil, with eradicate the devil dies so people are having fun with that next patch they will shift to whatever the forums are crying about.
    I dont think you have played a mage. Casttime on fireballs is 1,8 seconds, hitting for around 700-800 dmg, 1k+ for crit. You got some skills with long CDs to improve that, but wo GoS pyro is just another mage to stun from a far and bullet down in 4 sec. So dont give me that crap. Mage has no counter for MM atm. If it wasnt for all the stuns and roots and shiet Id say necro/lock, but you got so much CC-crap and put out so much dmg that theres not much a mage can do as necro/lock is very lackluster in CC itself.

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    Ato
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baluba View Post
    Well, the problem is any good team will always target the mages first, heck I do it myself. Simple reason is not because they are so much of a treat, but because they die so ridiculously fast that theres no way a cleric can outheal it. And the point of just staying out of harms way cause you die in 2 sec doesnt really either contribute to making the game "balanced" do it?
    Wrong again. Mages are targeted and focused because mages are a pain in the ***. Pre 1.2 a spotted mage meant one of two things was about to happen, you were either A: About to die a blazing near instant death; or B: You were about to spend a good chunk of the fight as a squirrel. Now with 1.2 option B is no longer a concern, but despite the crying of the occasional bad mages are still quite capable of option A.

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    Ato
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baluba View Post
    I dont think you have played a mage. Casttime on fireballs is 1,8 seconds, hitting for around 700-800 dmg, 1k+ for crit. You got some skills with long CDs to improve that, but wo GoS pyro is just another mage to stun from a far and bullet down in 4 sec. So dont give me that crap. Mage has no counter for MM atm. If it wasnt for all the stuns and roots and shiet Id say necro/lock, but you got so much CC-crap and put out so much dmg that theres not much a mage can do as necro/lock is very lackluster in CC itself.
    CC is dead, as a melee rogue (my main) we are screwed. We can either stun you to open, or slow you to prevent kiting. Both is not an option with the new CC resistance honestly with the changes to break free neither is really an option lol, do not even try and sell that a marksman is stun locking your Pyro, lies are just lies. There is 0 reason for a pyro to lose to a MM. Also your damage numbers make me wonder if you fight naked? or is this a level 30-39 bracket mage complaining?
    Last edited by Ato; 05-17-2011 at 09:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baluba View Post
    Well, the problem is any good team will always target the mages first, heck I do it myself. Simple reason is not because they are so much of a treat, but because they die so ridiculously fast that theres no way a cleric can outheal it. And the point of just staying out of harms way cause you die in 2 sec doesnt really either contribute to making the game "balanced" do it?
    The very successful group I run with (who are all quite capable and generally more experienced than I am) marks priority mage targets because of the impact they make, not because they go down fast.

    If someone goes down fast but isn't presenting a decent threat, they aren't going to be a kill priority. If a whole opposing team falls into this category... then it's going to be a massacre regardless and I guarantee everyone on that side regardless of class is going to feel similar.

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