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Thread: Deadly Dance Post 1.2 Suggestions

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Deadly Dance Post 1.2 Suggestions

    My question is for the 51 point assassins that prefer deadly dance in a secondary soul over the 15-point nightlbade. In your opinion, post 1.2, does deadly dance warrant sacrificing 15% damage from combo point generating abilities and 15% finishers and why? To my understanding DD has been reduced to affecting only 3 combo point generating abilities? I just want you guys to make me a believer, because I don't see myself doing more damage if I have to build up 5 points before I can start hitting hard.

    Please discuss, I am open to 51/15 sin/bd over a 51/15 sin/nb if it's more viable.
    Currently my opener is generally assinate/serpant/backstab/fb against low-health targets or squishy, otherwise jagged/serpant/backstab/impale/puncture against healers and well geared players- in either case I can set up the 5-points and finisher in most cases before they react. I'm really looking to killing my targets quickly, not building up 5-points so I can restealth to do max dps against the next target. How does a rotation or playstyle of a sin/deadly-dance build differ and what are your goals? To set up your dmg for another kill or kill your current target?

    Thank you
    Last edited by Sin000; 05-16-2011 at 06:24 AM.

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara
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    First of all, if you did your own testing you could try to make yourself a believer instead of having everyone else do the work for you ;)

    Second, 51AS/15BD won't be better for PvE...you haven't really said specifically what it is you want to do here. For PvP, it is great burst on the other hand.

    It doesn't take long to get to 5 CP's. Assassinate>Puncture>Deadly Strike>Serpent Strike/Backstab in same GCD. Sure, after that it takes longer to get to another finisher again, but who cares...most of the time your target is already dead. Burst is king in PvP, and Deadly Dance provides the highest possible burst.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calo View Post
    First of all, if you did your own testing you could try to make yourself a believer instead of having everyone else do the work for you ;)

    Second, 51AS/15BD won't be better for PvE...you haven't really said specifically what it is you want to do here. For PvP, it is great burst on the other hand.

    It doesn't take long to get to 5 CP's. Assassinate>Puncture>Deadly Strike>Serpent Strike/Backstab in same GCD. Sure, after that it takes longer to get to another finisher again, but who cares...most of the time your target is already dead. Burst is king in PvP, and Deadly Dance provides the highest possible burst.
    Ya PvP sry. And I have tested, I've seen the numbers but I don't see the burst potential from deadly dance before you already kill one target.
    Last edited by Sin000; 05-16-2011 at 06:44 AM.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    That's what this thread is about, it isn't about me not testing it myself. I want people who use it all the time to debate whether or not they think it's better versus the 23% overall dmg gain you get from nb. =D

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara
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    Well, it doesn't take killing a single target to get the buff up, it only takes getting your Deadly Strike in. Then your BS will hit for 1k+ and SS will hit for 2k+.

    Basically you could do Assassinate(1k)>Puncture(600)>Deadly Strike(900)>SS+BS(2k + 1k)

    OR

    Assassinate(1k)>Puncture(600)>Deadly Strike(900)>SS+BS(1k + 500).

    First scenario, most targets will already be dead or extremely close. Second scenario, your target will likely have 1.5-2k HP left. That's more than certain classes need to kill you. Somewhere awhile back, I showed mathematically how +105% damage 3/5ths of the time is better than ~26% 100% of the time if you want to look for it.
    Last edited by Calo; 05-16-2011 at 06:50 AM.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Thanks for the reply. On that note I feel dumb for not noticing that they changed it to proc off of any deadly strike, I thought it was still a 5-point finisher to get 100%. In that respect it actually does sound more advantageous to build up your rotation with a deadly strike poke even if it's just to double your serpent crit, but ya I do see it taking a little longer to build your 5 cp's.
    Last edited by Sin000; 05-16-2011 at 06:58 AM.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin000 View Post
    My question is for the 51 point assassins that prefer deadly dance in a secondary soul over the 15-point nightlbade. In your opinion, post 1.2, does deadly dance warrant sacrificing 15% damage from combo point generating abilities and 15% finishers and why? To my understanding DD has been reduced to affecting only 3 combo point generating abilities? I just want you guys to make me a believer, because I don't see myself doing more damage if I have to build up 5 points before I can start hitting hard.

    Please discuss, I am open to 51/15 sin/bd over a 51/15 sin/nb if it's more viable.
    Currently my opener is generally assinate/serpant/backstab/fb against low-health targets or squishy, otherwise jagged/serpant/backstab/impale/puncture against healers and well geared players- in either case I can set up the 5-points and finisher in most cases before they react. I'm really looking to killing my targets quickly, not building up 5-points so I can restealth to do max dps against the next target. How does a rotation or playstyle of a sin/deadly-dance build differ and what are your goals? To set up your dmg for another kill or kill your current target?

    Thank you
    Edit: I had deadly dance confused with side steps for some reason. Disregard.
    Last edited by Beefstu; 05-16-2011 at 07:00 AM.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calo View Post
    Well, it doesn't take killing a single target to get the buff up, it only takes getting your Deadly Strike in. Then your BS will hit for 1k+ and SS will hit for 2k+.

    Basically you could do Assassinate(1k)>Puncture(600)>Deadly Strike(900)>SS+BS(2k + 1k)

    OR

    Assassinate(1k)>Puncture(600)>Deadly Strike(900)>SS+BS(1k + 500).
    That's pretty much the sum of it.
    The dance is currently the ONLY thing that makes full assassin viable IMO. To put the same stuff in my own words:

    You don't really get your burst from KILLING your first target. Hell, half the time I don't get to take my damage over to my next target... I lose what skulls I've built up on my second round because my target dies before I can hit Deadly Strike to carry the damage buff over. That's really annoying, btw. Albeit a nice problem to have, but annoying nonetheless!

    An over-simplification of it is to say that you will have 5 points when you: ANY from-stealth opener -> Puncture. Your first finisher should always be Deadly Strike. After that, it depends on what kind of target you have but, assuming you don't have to make them SIT for a second, the above post pretty much ruins everything but a cleric (or healed target) for me. Of course, if I'm whacking on a target who's getting healed, I've screwed up in the first place and our little discussion is irrelevant.

    BTW, this is all opinion based on first-hand experience. I don't do parses and I don't bother with screenshots.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Blays's Avatar
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    Well plus.... Keen strike, Quick strike and Reprisal seem to create a pretty nice burst... if i actually have to fight without stealth. Also side steps and sprint are a nice utility to have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torvax View Post
    Im an R8 Cleric.
    1 Rogue can annihilate 2 healing clerics together-Cross healing doesnt work against a rog. .

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara
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    I have to agree with Highstrung. The only thing that gives Assassin the type of burst it should have to make up for the lack of survivability, mobility, and ranged attacks, is the current implementation of Deadly Dance.

    While they improvements they made to AS are good, they just weren't quite what they should have been on the upper end. Without using Deadly Dance, Backstab still hits like a wet noodle...every 6 seconds. There is no reason BS shouldn't hit for ~1k on a crit WITHOUT Deadly Dance - though they should move DD up higher in the BD tree so people can't use it to get 2k Backstabs for example. I love Serpent Strike, but I actually think it hits for too little for a 51 point ability. If you don't take DD, it's standard non-crit is like 600 damage. That's pretty pathetic, since every tick of Living Flame does more than that to every single target around me.

    That is aside from the whole "I spent 51 points in Assassin, but am mostly using abilities form the 15 points I put into BD" thing...

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Default agreed

    I also agree with highstrung. 1.2 was the first time my toon felt like an assassin with the change. Some things to think about. A malicious stike or foul play might be helpful after assassinate, puncture to lock the guy down, especially if they are on there own and may not have been subject to cc. I have had good luck getting the full 4 seconds, which is basically a one shot. Also, keep serpent strike out of a macro. Maybe I button smash too much, but moving it out has helped from having it go off early. With DD buff, it hits like a truck. I have rank 1 and 2 gear and 25dps weapons it does about 1.85k in damage. If fighting a healer, I try to time it to get their health below that level to kill them before a big healer. With plate, I have had good luck with assassinate, punture, deadly strike, foul play, slip away, assassinate, serpent strike.

    One thing I am on the fence is taking either inf or rift for the third soul. Break free is great and often let's me live after hitting it and slipping away. However, shadow step has let me finish off people who get away from my intial volley. I am still on the fence over that.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Thanks for your input guys.

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebby View Post
    I also agree with highstrung. 1.2 was the first time my toon felt like an assassin with the change. Some things to think about. A malicious stike or foul play might be helpful after assassinate, puncture to lock the guy down, especially if they are on there own and may not have been subject to cc. I have had good luck getting the full 4 seconds, which is basically a one shot. Also, keep serpent strike out of a macro. Maybe I button smash too much, but moving it out has helped from having it go off early. With DD buff, it hits like a truck. I have rank 1 and 2 gear and 25dps weapons it does about 1.85k in damage. If fighting a healer, I try to time it to get their health below that level to kill them before a big healer. With plate, I have had good luck with assassinate, punture, deadly strike, foul play, slip away, assassinate, serpent strike.

    One thing I am on the fence is taking either inf or rift for the third soul. Break free is great and often let's me live after hitting it and slipping away. However, shadow step has let me finish off people who get away from my intial volley. I am still on the fence over that.
    I also use FP to lock them down after Assassinate, and taking SS off of your macros is a good suggestion and something I recently did. That being said, I kept Break Free and use the speed run ability from BD tree as my gap closer. Sucks that it is on a 2-min timer, but I find that is generally enough that very few people escape.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched Azath's Avatar
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    just posted a thread about this exact topic- with a video etc....

    check it out

    4532 TIMESTAMP!

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