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Thread: Bard Motifs. Lets work on a way to change them.

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Bard Motifs. Lets work on a way to change them.

    I just recently started playing a Rogue up after having a 50 Warrior I MT on and decent dps offspecs and also got a 50 mage i've given up on as an alt as like 605 or more of my servers is playing mages.

    I enjoy playing the support type in pve and Archon was my favorite spec on my mage and now on my rogue I enjoy the Bard part quite.

    But (and I am aware this topic has probably come up many times before) the whole deal with the motifs seems a bit unnessesary extra button mashing. Most buffs in the game last and hour, Archon buffs 5 min, but motifs are only 30 sec.

    The 30 secs wouldn't bother me that much if Trion would put a 10-15 sec CD on the motifs so you could macro them or take off GCD. Preferebly both. Either this or make them last as long as Archon buffs.

    Personally would like the first option so they don't take up spaces on fast click hotbar buttons so I could macro them into 1 button like most other classes and builds can with thier important cd and short term spells.

    Anyone got thoughts on this, Trion maybe?

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Taking them off GCD is a good solution IMO.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser ControlBlue's Avatar
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    Fuse them together, add a dps talent that make you want to have them up, people can integrate the motif in any dps rotation, they enjoy having it up, done?
    ============ The Bard Soul Need A Total Rework! ============
    How to Make Bards More Fun! - Active Motifs vs. Passive Motifs.
    Bards Mechanics, Why They Are Lame - A Featured article on Rift Junkie discussing the Bard.
    The Bard as Pure Support - A 25+ page Thread on the role of Support and how it hold back Bards.
    Support/DPS Bard Prototype Soul - A prototype good Bard that would belong in the Rogue calling.

    A GOOD Saboteur Prototype Soul Tree! - No need for Nerfs!!

  4. #4
    Telaran Momolicious's Avatar
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    Add a straight damage add to the Resonance line to incentivise the 3 linked buffs being up. Feedback an Resonance, buffs people with all 3 for 5% of stats, reflects 5% of all damage back to the attacker?

    Add a linked buff effect like Resonance to the 2 healing motif that is an ablative.

    Make them castable on a mount...

    Let us be honest here. We would simply place the buffs in macros with similar cooldowns to their durations or somesuch and spam it every 30 sec (or spec dependant) if they didnt cost a GCD. That is nearly how we treat them now, OCD and all.

    The largest problem to the motifs now is the value of their GCD. Keep the GCD an up their value to the player somehow.
    "Good players can make themselves useful, but huge efforts should not be made to attain levels of use that others can accomplish with far less effort because their class was designed more intelligently." -- Ancient Rites
    I for one welcome our new bard overlords...

  5. #5
    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    increased bonus for multiple motifs
    some ideas:


    maybe the "tune played" could have its own overall effect:

    motif 1 + motif 2 = effect 1 /eg: shield(party shield ftw)
    motif 2 + motif 3 = effect 2 /eg: cleanse(partywide again ftw)
    motif 1 + motif 3 = effect 3 /eg: speed boost(...partywide ftw)

    used with a 'trigger skill' so maybe they could "stack" a couple of motifs then fire em out
    ... and so fourth ..


    resonate increase damage in to anything in range or something, more encouragement to uphold as many motifs as possible at any given time

    and ofc combat res
    Last edited by Pixel Monkey; 05-15-2011 at 03:36 PM.
    who took my names!

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    The motifs aren't much of a problem IMO. One thing that I really dislike about bards is their DPS. Archons, Chloromancers, and even Beast Master warriors all provide a high level of support to their group and bards are SO much lower on damage than any of those classes that it's silly.

    Sure bards can heal too, but the choice is to either heal for a little or do a little dps. You can't just do one of the other as a bard and expect it to compete with other more pure classes. Yeah bards do heal a lot, but most of that is just passive healing that basically just causes a bit more overheals from actual healing classes (what cleric is NOT going to heal while a motif or cadence ticks a player back to full from 80% HP)

    The Motifs could maybe last up to 60 seconds, which in-turn would increase our healing and/or dps output. Not having to waste 5-6 seconds every 30 seconds to throw up buffs could help. Also every minute (depending on if they're provided or not), we waste about 8 more seconds putting up our debuffs.

    I also feel that trion could buff the damage of riff, cadence, and power chord by easily 100%. One may argue that cadence would just heal for way too much, but they could just add to the tooltip that "cadence heals for 50% of the damage done".

  7. #7
    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    bards should stop trying to dps with a lute
    good support is good support
    good dps is good dps
    let go of the parser ego and do what the bard role was intended for
    Last edited by Pixel Monkey; 05-15-2011 at 04:08 PM.
    who took my names!

  8. #8
    Ascendant nand chan's Avatar
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    What I would personally love is getting different, short-duration buffs when motifs are played in a certain order. The sound of the motifs should also change slightly so the actual sequences result in an audible/recognizable song or tune.

    We would have good bards literally memorizing songs and "playing" for the group, resembling an actual musician. The best bards would know all of the sequences by heart and would react to situations as needed, thus forming their own "songs" as they go along.

    Having had many hours of fun playing motifs in certain orders to create "songs" to pass the time while questing, I would absolutely love this or something similar being implemented.

    Another idea of mine, possibly linked with the first, would be to have large benefits from two bards playing together - sort of like an Ensemble piece from the game Ragnarok Online's bard/dancer classes - this could manifest in the form of, for example, large stat/ability boosts when two of the above mentioned sequence buffs mix together, from two bards.
    Last edited by nand chan; 05-15-2011 at 04:22 PM.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by nand chan View Post
    What I would personally love is getting different, short-duration buffs when motifs are played in a certain order. The sound of the motifs should also change slightly so the actual sequences result in an audible/recognizable song or tune.

    We would have good bards literally memorizing songs and "playing" for the group, resembling an actual musician. The best bards would know all of the sequences by heart and would react to situations as needed, thus forming their own "songs" as they go along.

    Having had many hours of fun playing motifs in certain orders to create "songs" to pass the time while questing, I would absolutely love this or something similar being implemented.

    Another idea of mine, possibly linked with the first, would be to have large benefits from two bards playing together - sort of like an Ensemble piece from the game Ragnarok Online's bard/dancer classes - this could manifest in the form of, for example, large stat/ability boosts when two of the above mentioned sequence buffs mix together, from two bards.
    I'd personally enjoy this. But do you really think most of the people playing this game would be competent enough? Heh.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    I've thought about this issue as well.

    First off, there are too many to spam. 5 GCD worth of spamming every 30 seconds. Second is they don't benefit enough. Its a little bit all over the place, kind of stale. May as well give us one buff that does it all in one go and just give it 5 GCD worth of cast time. Not seriously though, just saying how bland it is atm.

    My idea would be to limit the max number of motifs up at a time to something, say 3 for example. Next, boost all of their effects by a fair amount. Some of them can be bunched together to be "boosted", for example AP/SP motif combined with the crit rate motif. The regen one with the healing (though its an aura now, it can apply the buff to everyone and just put the aura up for the bard). And after merging these redundant ones, add in new ones. Particularly situational things - for example a motif that gives additional flee/evasion stat and resistance (chance to fully avoid, not mitigate) spell damage. The defensive one can also boost armor by a flat % as well as its buff or give a damage shield.

    It all sounds over the top, but in a group setting it will allow a single bard to twist more appropriate motifs rather than just spamming -all- of them because they all give something benefitial. Re-work it so they work similar to anthems where they each give a very distinctive boon. As for raid, you'll probably end up wanting two bards at all times. Doubt you'd ever want two bards in one group (unless more healing is needed) for these benefits though, as they're not that over the top.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Ehi people one of my spec is 51 Bard and I know sometime is quite boring to keep motiffs going AND keep cadence/codas playing BUT increasing duration would means diminish their power (balance issue). Losing 5 GCD every 30 secs is the price we have to pay to have guild mates saying "hey guys having a bard in a group is remarkable look at my dps output while that man is singing!". Sure having them lasting 1 min and having a Cd on them would make them more comfortable to use! ;)
    Obviously taking them off GCD would be absurd!

    Quote Originally Posted by nand chan View Post

    Another idea of mine, possibly linked with the first, would be to have large benefits from two bards playing together - sort of like an Ensemble piece from the game Ragnarok Online's bard/dancer classes - this could manifest in the form of, for example, large stat/ability boosts when two of the above mentioned sequence buffs mix together, from two bards.
    That would be nice and it would make bards "stackable" and not pretty useless. I means that people love to have a bard doing his work in raid but the second is not worth the place!

  12. #12
    Telaran Barda's Avatar
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    /signed
    Barda - Rogue - Seastone

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    Maybe have a finisher that plays a motif for each combo point you have?

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pixel Monkey View Post
    bards should stop trying to dps with a lute
    good support is good support
    good dps is good dps
    let go of the parser ego and do what the bard role was intended for
    ^This guy has it right. Three cheers for playing Bard/Warlord/Archon/(practically any cleric soul) because you want to support, not dps.

  15. #15
    Telaran Kreese's Avatar
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    from the Rift Junkie article that Control Blue linked

    It has already been suggested many times by many different people but one immediate fix Trion can use that will allow Cadence to refresh Motif durations. Cadence will immediately become a better tool and it alleviate the tedium of Motif refreshing.
    I soo would love to see this

    FYI the original poster said NOTHING about dps or dps meters - we are talking about the 5 finger shuffle here
    Last edited by Kreese; 05-16-2011 at 07:20 AM.

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