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Thread: 44 MM/20 Inf/ 2 Sab

  1. #1
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    Default 44 MM/20 Inf/ 2 Sab

    well thats what I have come up with, and it seems to be the best spec I can find for a survivable Eradicate spec. I would like to point out that if you chose to go without perma stealth you could put 2 more points into sab and increase your dex even more.

    For me Perma stealth is the only way to go so 20 inf is always going to be in there.

    Results are instantly being targeted by every opposing warrior or Shaman on the board.
    You basically **** mages, and clerics are killable. Warriors are out distanced before than can bring you down, and Shaman are debuffed into not being able to kill you before your heavy armor pen shreads their chain armor.

    Not saying your un killable but it seems to be at least as survivable as a 32 NB spec, and you have as much support by ripping buffs off of the main focus target.

    The sab part is very tricky in this build as with the 20 into Inf you get an interrupt on your detonated charges, which due to them being a ranged attack they benefit from the armor pen in MM and inf, so you get 30% armor pen on an attack that cannot be dodged blocked parried or miss. It is a nice finisher when you are ripping buffs and they get in kill range as they cannot heal through it and if you have 5 combo points and wait for the cast bar it will interrupt that spell line 100% of the time. Nice little trick, this is a nice bonus for increasing your dexterity by 6%.

    Really a good spec if you don't mind complicated play mechanics.
    Last edited by DArksayian; 05-15-2011 at 03:45 AM.

  2. #2
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    Wanna link your point distribution?

  3. #3
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    Default link to spec

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAftermath View Post
    Wanna link your point distribution?
    <a href="http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MfTb.EMtkVzAudR.M.gx0R0f">Marksman (44) / Saboteur (2) / Infiltrator (20)</a>

    The first 36 points are pretty obvious in MM, but the last 6 are at your volition.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    survivable Eradicate spec
    you took the wrong side of the infiltrator tree for that.

    44 maks 22 sin 0 inf would probably suit you better

    anathema is garbage
    sleight of hand is worthless with eradicate
    deaden > pardon the interruption

    other than that you took dps talents

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meccros View Post
    you took the wrong side of the infiltrator tree for that.

    44 maks 22 sin 0 inf would probably suit you better

    anathema is garbage
    sleight of hand is worthless with eradicate
    deaden > pardon the interruption

    other than that you took dps talents
    Well, my idea behind this spec is not to be super survivable, it is to do as much damage to a healer or caster as possible, whil maintaining as much control over what they do as possible. I use Anthema quite a bit as typically a NB is long dead by the time I strike the healer in the back. Now I would not say this spec is as overal more survivable than 32NB/14MM/20inf but it is close and the overal damage against clothies is not even in the same world. Anathema is nasty to say it is worthless for PVP is to show your in experience on the matter, as a healer that has to first purge the debuff is giving me the op to silence the heal or just drop him where he stands if he/she keeps the anathema debuff he is done.

    Slight of hand is so far from worthless its stupid, I can strip three buffs in one GCD, come one!
    Deaden is jack nasty and is even more jack nasty when you can get a garanteed silence on a 5 charge detonate that cant miss, be dodged, be parried, or blocked.

    I think you are a little short sighted on your responce!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meccros View Post
    you took the wrong side of the infiltrator tree for that.

    44 maks 22 sin 0 inf would probably suit you better

    anathema is garbage
    sleight of hand is worthless with eradicate
    deaden > pardon the interruption

    other than that you took dps talents
    Now link this spec and lets diagnose it!
    I started out with 44MM/22sin at 50 and what i find there is a ton of wasted points in talents and abilities that you find just go unused! I would have agreed accept every point has to count and if you invest in Sin you lose the cleans, anathema, and cloudy poison "25% more time on a cast is time for a deaden to land".

    My 44MM build is not designed to be super survivable its designed to not get hit by using mobility and stealth, then delivering a massive burst at range. It also serves as a great support to the team as you shread buffs and peal off of targets with two different knock backs.

    The way you stay alive is to stay moving, juke and kite,blast chargeX5, srafe, IHNR, DES/RFS, ES x3, detonate Rapid reload and do it again if they are still alive.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meccros View Post
    you took the wrong side of the infiltrator tree for that.

    44 maks 22 sin 0 inf would probably suit you better

    anathema is garbage
    sleight of hand is worthless with eradicate
    deaden > pardon the interruption

    other than that you took dps talents
    Now DPS talents? Please enlighten me?

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Not saying your un killable but it seems to be at least as survivable as a 32 NB spec
    when i read the OP you say you wanted a survivable eradicate spec

    by dps talents i mean if you wanted survivable, should have went up the right side of the infiltrator tree, take cover, against all odds, quick recovery, grip like steel etc..., that would have been a "survivable" eradicate spec. i see nothing there that is going to help keep you alive

    going up the left side is mainly adding dmg, it's the 22 points i question

    For me Perma stealth is the only way to go so 20 inf is always going to be in there.
    this is why i recommend 22 sin for "you", perma stealth, blinding powder (blinding powder + deaden should be lots to interrupt), kick (only close range, but if melee gets on you), same to more overall dmg. not even saying it's the best, but if stealth is what you want this would be more optimal. overall your going to have 3 wasted talents in serated blades or cloak and dagger. other than that it's all talents to help you deliver that massive burst once you get into position

    anthemema is garbage when it's 50%, 40%, 30%, 20% 10% and pretty much killed off with a single hot stack, maybe in a couple weeks after all the healers spec out of warden i might see this in new light, until then. no. fel blades is good, anthenema is not (even when you try to pair them together for the 75% reduced heal it's more of a trick than anything else)

    sleight of hand strips 1 buff for 1 gcd @ 25m (altho yes it awards a combo point)
    eradicate strips 2 buffs for 1 gcd @ 35m

    so to strip 3 buffs you need to use 2 gcd, then why not use eradicate twice and strip 4 buffs instead,

    losing the cleanse is a hard pill to swallow, and cloudy poison is nice. overall your spec is fine, i've used it myself (along with 44 mm, 17 sin, 5 inf) but what i'm saying is this is not a survivable eradicate spec

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...AudR.0AMbt0boz

    there is the 22 sin that i recommend if it's stealth you want, as far as dmg output

    ruthlessness 5% crit
    cruel vengance 10% dps
    murderous thought 4% dmg
    magnify pain 20% crit dmg

    as opposed to
    penetrating strikes 10% armor pen
    focused intent 20% dmg
    murderous thoughts 6% dmg
    knock knock 10% crit dmg

    personally i find the sin build to put out more burst seeing as it takes forever to build up 10 charges with focused intent, as you stack more crit the extra 10% crit dmg will really start to shine (overall you will have 10% more crit as well)
    Last edited by Meccros; 05-16-2011 at 09:12 AM.

  9. #9
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    Check this out DArksayian:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...ubo.xx0M0c.V0b

    I used to be all in for perma stealth but I realized that I don't actually spend more than 30 seconds in stealth in BGs so the perma stealth just isn't necessary. For world PvP I have a secondary spec that's assassination/bard for the really fast stealth movement and I believe my 3rd is marks for the sprint. Switching between specs is really fast and pretty viable in world pvp. The spec I linked above also does more damage than what you linked.

    Good luck!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meccros View Post
    when i read the OP you say you wanted a survivable eradicate spec

    by dps talents i mean if you wanted survivable, should have went up the right side of the infiltrator tree, take cover, against all odds, quick recovery, grip like steel etc..., that would have been a "survivable" eradicate spec. i see nothing there that is going to help keep you alive

    going up the left side is mainly adding dmg, it's the 22 points i question



    this is why i recommend 22 sin for "you", perma stealth, blinding powder (blinding powder + deaden should be lots to interrupt), kick (only close range, but if melee gets on you), same to more overall dmg. not even saying it's the best, but if stealth is what you want this would be more optimal. overall your going to have 3 wasted talents in serated blades or cloak and dagger. other than that it's all talents to help you deliver that massive burst once you get into position

    anthemema is garbage when it's 50%, 40%, 30%, 20% 10% and pretty much killed off with a single hot stack, maybe in a couple weeks after all the healers spec out of warden i might see this in new light, until then. no. fel blades is good, anthenema is not (even when you try to pair them together for the 75% reduced heal it's more of a trick than anything else)

    sleight of hand strips 1 buff for 1 gcd @ 25m (altho yes it awards a combo point)
    eradicate strips 2 buffs for 1 gcd @ 35m

    so to strip 3 buffs you need to use 2 gcd, then why not use eradicate twice and strip 4 buffs instead,

    losing the cleanse is a hard pill to swallow, and cloudy poison is nice. overall your spec is fine, i've used it myself (along with 44 mm, 17 sin, 5 inf) but what i'm saying is this is not a survivable eradicate spec

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...AudR.0AMbt0boz

    there is the 22 sin that i recommend if it's stealth you want, as far as dmg output

    ruthlessness 5% crit
    cruel vengance 10% dps
    murderous thought 4% dmg
    magnify pain 20% crit dmg

    as opposed to
    penetrating strikes 10% armor pen
    focused intent 20% dmg
    murderous thoughts 6% dmg
    knock knock 10% crit dmg

    personally i find the sin build to put out more burst seeing as it takes forever to build up 10 charges with focused intent, as you stack more crit the extra 10% crit dmg will really start to shine (overall you will have 10% more crit as well)
    SIN seems way better than the offensive side in INF if you're spec'ing for damage with 44MM. The straight damage buffs themselves seem comparable, but look at the other things you get from SIN:

    SIN:
    -5% crit poison
    -2nd poison to use for extra damage or damage + life leech
    -Meele 4 sec stun
    -2 meele openers from stealth (4sec stun or straight damage)
    -15% dam buff + -15% dam reduction after opener from stealth
    -Blind
    -Extra speed while stealthed
    -Meele snare
    -Meele sap from stealth

    vs.

    INF:
    -Cleanse (which is great, no debate there)
    -Anathema (not great, not horrible either)
    -Cloudy Poison (would trade this for the crit poison any day of the week)

    It's no contest really.

  11. #11
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    Default I am well aware of what Sin has to offer but you will waste 6 to 10

    you will waste 6 to 10 talent points on things you will not use if you are playing MM right, as you will need distance. Sin abilities rely on being on top of your opponent. The stun I miss but I can just fly away if some one is too close, plus I am going so fast that they cant keep up in the first place. I run backwards as fast as others run forward!



    If you are in melee why use a one hander when I can shoot you in the face. I am not saying Sin is a bad idea or that the spec I use is all about about survivability but it is survivable while cranking out sic damage. 30% armor pen can not be overlooked! Having 2 silences is nasty as all get out. I did not intend to make readers think it was about being a MM tank as it is not.

    I think to understand my position you first have to understand what I do. I dont attack warriors unless I have to, I dont attack other rogues unless I have to, I am looking for the little blue bar under the health bar and seeing who they are looking at, and once I know your a healer I ignore everyone else on the battle field until the healer is gone. I dont care to get close as range is far superior defense than sitting on some one "survive". The only time I really allow my self to get close to the target is if I need to repell them to another location, or they are closing in at the end of a casted shot. thats all beside the point

    This spec is survivable but not about defensive abilities. Its all offensive yet highly survivable due to insane mobility, being able to chose your target, and strike when you chose. I am in stealth if I am not attacking period. I use stealth to the fullest, it is the reason to be a rogue, if not for stealth then I would roll a warrior.

    I guess that is what separates me from the rest is I will have perma stealth and the best way to get it and not waste points is the Inf tree.

    When I hit 50 I was 21 sin 32 MM 12 inf, it was very cool, but when you start to get into the MM grove you start to see all these wasted points. of abilities you dont use. All I am saying is if you invest in Sin you will waste points. NB would be a much better investment with MM as you can still maintain your distance yet have every thing but perma stealth. No matter what if you chose to go no stealth NB is the only way to go with MM as most of its abilities have a 20 meter range, so you can keep a buffer zone. Plus it has teh best surviability of all rogue callings save RS. Fel Blades owns face when AOE spread by Fan out.
    Me: "Reclaimer = PvP server, U = mad, I = LOL"

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    what 6 to 10 talents points are a waste?, kick is only a suggestion and you dont need it, but it's nice. 17 points in sin will increase your overall dmg (of any build). it's like taking 15 in nightblade you dont invest the points for savage strike and final blow, you do it for the increased crit chance and dmg (i.e. burst)

    you gain skills you wont use as a marksman sure, but you didn't invest points in the skills. if the end result is greater, then who cares about a few extra skills that you dont use sitting in your skillbook.

    examples.
    51 sin 10 nb (5 wherever) to increase the overall dmg of the sin build, not for the skills you gain in the nb tree

    the best ranger build currently uses 18 points in marksman, 17 assassin, but doesn't generally use any marksman abilities, or use any sin skills (i.e. it's a pve spec but to prove my point)

    after the 17 sin, and 44 marksman you have 5 points to throw around, improved stealth, silent footsteps, blinding powder, kick


    --------------------


    it's a spec build around eradicate, that requires 44 points in marksman, so no matter what your build your best defence is going to be distance and speed, no matter what you do. any 44 mm build is going to be squishy, but there is nothing special about your "eradicate spec" to make it more survivable than another 44 marksman "eradicate spec" and theres nothing really you could do in any case

    me and others here suggest 44 marks 22 sin because it offers more burst, and more speed while stealthed, it is no less "survivable"

    if you like the 44mm, 20 inf build, then great, but you cant get away with calling it a "survivable eradicate" spec unless you take the right side of the inf tree

    one final thing, rogues are about so much more than stealth.
    Last edited by Meccros; 05-16-2011 at 07:03 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meccros View Post
    what 6 to 10 talents points are a waste?, kick is only a suggestion and you dont need it, but it's nice. 17 points in sin will increase your overall dmg (of any build). it's like taking 15 in nightblade you dont invest the points for savage strike and final blow, you do it for the increased crit chance and dmg (i.e. burst)

    you gain skills you wont use as a marksman sure, but you didn't invest points in the skills. if the end result is greater, then who cares about a few extra skills that you dont use sitting in your skillbook.

    examples.
    51 sin 10 nb (5 wherever) to increase the overall dmg of the sin build, not for the skills you gain in the nb tree

    the best ranger build currently uses 18 points in marksman, 17 assassin, but doesn't generally use any marksman abilities, or use any sin skills (i.e. it's a pve spec but to prove my point)

    after the 17 sin, and 44 marksman you have 5 points to throw around, improved stealth, silent footsteps, blinding powder, kick


    --------------------


    it's a spec build around eradicate, that requires 44 points in marksman, so no matter what your build your best defence is going to be distance and speed, no matter what you do. any 44 mm build is going to be squishy, but there is nothing special about your "eradicate spec" to make it more survivable than another 44 marksman "eradicate spec" and theres nothing really you could do in any case

    me and others here suggest 44 marks 22 sin because it offers more burst, and more speed while stealthed, it is no less "survivable"

    if you like the 44mm, 20 inf build, then great, but you cant get away with calling it a "survivable eradicate" spec unless you take the right side of the inf tree

    one final thing, rogues are about so much more than stealth.
    Without the points in Inf you will be vulneralble to your primary targets "CAsters" with a 5 meter buffer zone. Investing in Inf gives a 5 second immunity to there setup process and typically gives you a 10 second window to put them on *** holes and elbows defence. This ability requires 10 points in Inf, which would remove the largest benefits of the Sin tree. You simply will die so much more and do less overal damage as you will be dead more than alive.
    Me: "Reclaimer = PvP server, U = mad, I = LOL"

  14. #14
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    Why is Assassin better then Nightblade?

    Looking at the Trees, it would seem Nightblade does more damage with your openers and finishers, which is what the MM uses the most.


    I do not see what the difference is, or the where this more damage come from Assassin.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvdielZion View Post
    Why is Assassin better then Nightblade?

    Looking at the Trees, it would seem Nightblade does more damage with your openers and finishers, which is what the MM uses the most.


    I do not see what the difference is, or the where this more damage come from Assassin.
    17 in assassin gives you:

    5% morce crit chance (works with ranged attacks)
    4% more physical dmg (works with ranged attacks)
    10% more physical damage after a crit (works with ranged attacks and procs so often it is 100% up)
    20% more damage bonus to crits (works with... well you know it by now do you?)

    so you get 14% more physical damage to everything that is physical damage and 5% crit chance and 20% more crit damage bonus versus 15% more damage to cp builders and finishers only plus 8% damage from the fire enchant buff and the passiv in nightblade.

    this is why many people spec 38mm/17sin/11nb in pve, because both souls are a good support for mm, but if you have to chose between the two, sin should be prefered
    even though the difference is not that big, the 5% crit from sin win.

    edit: for pvp just spec 44mm/17sin/5nb if you dont want to use infiltrator.
    Last edited by Bownanza; 05-17-2011 at 06:21 AM.

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