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Thread: Rogue combo points should work like warrior attack points.

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser DeadlySmurf's Avatar
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    Default Rogue combo points should work like warrior attack points.

    There is really no reason why rogues should have to build combo points on one target instead of building them on themselves. Having to stay on one target to build all five points and maximize dps is a major disadvantage of the class.

    From a design perspective, a rogue can lose a lot of damage if its target dies before it can build up five combo points, and whenever a rogue has to switch targets they lose all their points and that sacrifices a lot of damage as well.

    For example, when a tank needs to build threat on multiple targets, I often get aggro if I stay on the same target while the tank is switching between targets to get threat up. If I switch targets to whichever one the tank is attacking, there goes my combo points.

    From a gameplay perspective, it makes sense that a rogue would gain points based on what they do to themselves rather than what they do to the enemy. If a rogue is doing a combination of abilities, it shouldn't matter what target they are hitting, as long as they keep hitting a target.

    Think of games like God of War, Kratos builds combos why landing consecutive hits on any target, not just the same target. That makes much more sense to me.

    So i suggest that rogues build combo points on themselves instead of their targets, so that the points can crossover to multiple targets if they need to, like warrior attack points. Also it would make sense if combo points went away after 10-15 seconds of inactivity, because it's not really a combo if you wait 15 seconds to do something.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    /signed +1

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    Plane Touched Blue Nippon's Avatar
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    /signed+2 (if they balance it out)

    I have no problem the way it is... but I think it would make being an assassin more fun... save your combo... pop out and boom...

    like it should be...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetsun View Post
    Hackers... My guess is that it is China. Isn't Two Worlds made in China? I mean this game is in direct competition with it...so it would not be far fetched to think this is internet espionage or sabotage

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    Rift Master Carthoris's Avatar
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    Different classes are different, go play a warrior if that's what you want.

    You'll also notice that warriors only build to 3 points, versus rogue's 5 - that lets our finishers be more important and hit harder (among many, many other design problems that would come up with your suggestion were it implemented - thank god Trion isn't that stupid). There's also several talents that allow you to gain a benefit when a target dies with CPs still active, as well as a CP-transfer skill. Rogues have been like this since release; if you don't like how the core mechanic of a class works why are you playing it? So tired of people choosing to play spec/soul A, which is balanced around mechanic B, and then crying because an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT CLASS WORKS DIFFERENTLY. Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Nippon View Post
    /signed+2 (if they balance it out)

    I have no problem the way it is... but I think it would make being an assassin more fun... save your combo... pop out and boom...

    like it should be...
    If they balanced it out, then you couldn't pop out and boom - it would be pop out and wet-noodle-slap.
    Last edited by Carthoris; 05-12-2011 at 01:43 PM.

  5. #5
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    I always thought Warriors need to work like Rogues, but as long as they're the same.
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carthoris View Post
    Different classes are different, go play a warrior if that's what you want.

    You'll also notice that warriors only build to 3 points, versus rogue's 5 - that lets our finishers be more important and hit harder (among many, many other design problems that would come up with your suggestion were it implemented - thank god Trion isn't that stupid). There's also several talents that allow you to gain a benefit when a target dies with CPs still active, as well as a CP-transfer skill. Rogues have been like this since release; if you don't like how the core mechanic of a class works why are you playing it? So tired of people choosing to play spec/soul A, which is balanced around mechanic B, and then crying because an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT CLASS WORKS DIFFERENTLY. Christ.



    If they balanced it out, then you couldn't pop out and boom - it would be pop out and wet-noodle-slap.

    "Wet-noodle-slap." I love it.

    I completely agree with with Carthoris. They are similar mechanics, but that does not mean they should be identical. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. With Rogue, you just have to think more strategically. Either way, just because you can build 5 combo points does not mean you have to. If you are concerned about losing your points, don't change targets till you spend them or if there is a chance the target may die, use your finishing move even if you have not built to 5 points. If the target dies before you can get that 5th point in, your finishing move would have been wasted extra damage anyway. And as Cathoris points out, there are ways to make use of the unused points. For example, if you have the passive that converts unused combo points to a self-heal, you may actually want the target to die with 5 combo points on it. That would not happen if combo points are saved.

    No doubt it would be easier to play if the combo points were on you rather than the target, but this feature makes you have to think about your moves rather than just continuing to mash the same pattern of buttons whether your target changes or not.

  7. #7
    Sword of Telara Mr Malingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voxin View Post
    "Wet-noodle-slap." I love it.

    I completely agree with with Carthoris. They are similar mechanics, but that does not mean they should be identical. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.
    Really? Whats the advantage to having them be on your target rather than on you?
    Maybe he just wanted to steal our wire cutters. You ever think of that?

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlySmurf View Post
    Think of games like God of War, Kratos builds combos why landing consecutive hits on any target, not just the same target. That makes much more sense to me.
    Kratos was QUITE CLEARLY a warrior spec.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    rogues stealth therfore warriors should ?

    rogues are designed to play behind the lines, solo, alone, picking of targets 1 by 1, its why they have stealth so they can hide when outnumbered. Played perfectly they should never need to switch target because its always 1v1 theres is no target to switch to. To understand the mind of a rogue/ninja you really need to watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3G5m..._order&list=UL


    Warriors are designed to stand in the middle of an enemy zerg shouting there defiance at the enemy they attract enemy players like a magnet atrracts iron. Played perfectly a warrior should be surrounded by enemy players constantly lashing out from one target to the next.
    Last edited by Crazybull; 05-12-2011 at 03:14 PM.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser DeadlySmurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carthoris View Post
    Different classes are different, go play a warrior if that's what you want.

    You'll also notice that warriors only build to 3 points, versus rogue's 5 - that lets our finishers be more important and hit harder (among many, many other design problems that would come up with your suggestion were it implemented - thank god Trion isn't that stupid). There's also several talents that allow you to gain a benefit when a target dies with CPs still active, as well as a CP-transfer skill. Rogues have been like this since release; if you don't like how the core mechanic of a class works why are you playing it? So tired of people choosing to play spec/soul A, which is balanced around mechanic B, and then crying because an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT CLASS WORKS DIFFERENTLY. Christ.



    If they balanced it out, then you couldn't pop out and boom - it would be pop out and wet-noodle-slap.
    I'm not complaining that warriors have this system and rogues don't, I'm just using the warrior system as a basis for what I think rogues should be.

    I feel like this system is just based on tradition, other MMO's used it and no one has decided to change it. It's outdated and impractical. I also stress that combo points would not last forever, if you don't do any actions for 10-15 seconds they would go away, preventing rogues from saving up 5 points then blowing someone up instantly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbearr View Post
    Kratos was QUITE CLEARLY a warrior spec.
    I lold, pretty hard.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker Shredicus's Avatar
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    Buff rogues

  12. #12
    Sez
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    This is like saying, "Oh, Mages and Clerics should cast spells the same way." Psh, like that will ever happen.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

    - Rogue Lead - <Gestalt> - Defiant - Dayblind Server -

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara DeadlySight's Avatar
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    I like this, as long as on my Stormcaller Electrified and Ice Shear are sell buffs, not debuffs

    You know, because when I have to switch targets I lose alot of damage

  14. #14
    Soulwalker Death_Roe's Avatar
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    Get out of here I play Rogue myself and we don't really need our combo points to work like the warrior

    if you can't spike someone down with are Combo point system no offense but you really need to learn to play your rouge more

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlySmurf View Post
    There is really no reason why rogues should have to build combo points on one target instead of building them on themselves. Having to stay on one target to build all five points and maximize dps is a major disadvantage of the class.

    From a design perspective, a rogue can lose a lot of damage if its target dies before it can build up five combo points, and whenever a rogue has to switch targets they lose all their points and that sacrifices a lot of damage as well.

    For example, when a tank needs to build threat on multiple targets, I often get aggro if I stay on the same target while the tank is switching between targets to get threat up. If I switch targets to whichever one the tank is attacking, there goes my combo points.

    From a gameplay perspective, it makes sense that a rogue would gain points based on what they do to themselves rather than what they do to the enemy. If a rogue is doing a combination of abilities, it shouldn't matter what target they are hitting, as long as they keep hitting a target.

    Think of games like God of War, Kratos builds combos why landing consecutive hits on any target, not just the same target. That makes much more sense to me.

    So i suggest that rogues build combo points on themselves instead of their targets, so that the points can crossover to multiple targets if they need to, like warrior attack points. Also it would make sense if combo points went away after 10-15 seconds of inactivity, because it's not really a combo if you wait 15 seconds to do something.

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser DeadlySmurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death_Roe View Post
    Get out of here I play Rogue myself and we don't really need our combo points to work like the warrior

    if you can't spike someone down with are Combo point system no offense but you really need to learn to play your rouge more
    It's not about spiking other players down, it's about switching targets in dungeons or targets dying before you get a finisher off.

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