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Thread: RS+BD Question

  1. #1
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    Default RS+BD Question

    Has anyone experimented tanking with a higher spec into BD? Enough to get the combo point generating ability? I was basically wondering if the extra combo points might mitigate the smaller riftguard shield one would get with only 34in the RS line. You'd be able to refresh much more often theoretically.

    Something like this: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...RzoM.v0dV0c0MM

    Any thoughts?

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    Soulwalker Nylian's Avatar
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    You're missing out on a straight 8.5% damage reduction from rift guard, and 17% less endurance compared to a 51 point spec. You get 6% avoidance from the improved false blade, and maybe 2%(?) from the 15% dex. I would prefer the straight damage reduction, significantly more endurance, and the 44 and the 51 point abilities than more avoidance, crit, and combo points.

    Best spec I've tested is 51rs/7ranger/8bd

    Some people like bard but my opinion is that it's terrible compared to BD. :P
    Last edited by Nylian; 04-29-2011 at 06:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nylian View Post
    You're missing out on a straight 8.5% damage reduction from rift guard, and 17% less endurance compared to a 51 point spec. You get 6% avoidance from the improved false blade, and maybe 2%(?) from the 15% dex. I would prefer the straight damage reduction, significantly more endurance, and the 44 and the 51 point abilities than more avoidance, crit, and combo points.

    Best spec I've tested is 51rs/7ranger/8bd

    Some people like bard but my opinion is that it's terrible compared to BD. :P
    you don't miss anything from rift guard. as it stops at 5% bonus wich is 10 points. 16+10 = 26.

    but i must say i tried that spec. tough you'll have a huge gap in your health. making your rift guard not stay up for its full duration and that does give problems.

    yes you get slightely more avoidance and yes you do more dmg but no its not advisable.

    i've run with a 46rift/8range/12 bd in dungeons for a while and that worked fine. tough i gave that spec up as for raids i needed the 51 point rift for its immunity. and only having 4 roles hurt in that regard.

    the thing is i wouldn't go lower then 44 rift as the aoe groupup ability is insanely good for picking up groups. and i would never run an expert without it.

    and i agree bard is not good for tanking. it would be awesome if you had more points and a 4th soul in your tree to put it in but otherwise no don't use it
    Last edited by bahizret; 04-29-2011 at 06:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahizret View Post
    you don't miss anything from rift guard. as it stops at 5% bonus wich is 10 points. 16+10 = 26.
    What? Rift guard caps at 35% damage reduction, at 51 points into riftstalker. Where did you get this info which says it stop at 26%? Also don't forget 1% endurance per point

    Quote Originally Posted by bahizret View Post
    and i agree bard is not good for tanking. it would be awesome if you had more points and a 4th soul in your tree to put it in but otherwise no don't use it
    Bard is my favorite 5 man tanking spec. Having Cadence, Armor aura and a ton of free health is really nice. For raiding I completely agree 7 ranger > 7 bard though. Also in 5 mans keep up Motif of Bravery to make **** die faster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Equis View Post
    What? Rift guard caps at 35% damage reduction, at 51 points into riftstalker. Where did you get this info which says it stop at 26%? Also don't forget 1% endurance per point
    have you ever read improved rift guard ? you know the talent ?

    and yes you gain endurance due improved guardian phase. but honestly 5% aint that much to miss from 5 talents.


    Quote Originally Posted by Equis View Post
    Bard is my favorite 5 man tanking spec. Having Cadence, Armor aura and a ton of free health is really nice. For raiding I completely agree 7 ranger > 7 bard though. Also in 5 mans keep up Motif of Bravery to make **** die faster.
    i pref having ranged openers from mm and the flat 4-6% dmg reduced

    the 5% hp from bard again aint that much. also the armor yes it helps but doesn't do that much as most bosses tend to do magic dmg anyway.

    the motif is more of a chore then a increase. i won't waste a gcd on that when tanking.
    Last edited by bahizret; 04-29-2011 at 06:48 AM.
    "Guts were meant to be gutted."
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahizret View Post
    have you ever read improved rift guard ? you know the talent ?

    and yes you gain endurance due improved guardian phase. but honestly 5% aint that much to miss from 5 talents.
    Yes. I have read it. I wonder if you have. Here's the quote from Zam:

    Quote Originally Posted by ZAM
    Increases the incoming damage Rift Guard absorbs by 2.5% and the total amount of damage it can absorb by 25%. For every point spent in the Riftstalker above 16, the incoming damage Rift Guard absorbs is increased by 0.5% and the total amount of damage it can absorb is increased by 5%.
    It doesn't say it caps at 26%. If you do the math you get 35% reduction at 51 points into the tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by bahizret View Post
    i pref having ranged openers from mm and the flat 4-6% dmg reduced

    the 5% hp from bard again aint that much. also the armor yes it helps but doesn't do that much as most bosses tend to do magic dmg anyway.

    the motif is more of a chore then a increase. i won't waste a gcd on that when tanking.
    First of all I assume you mean Ranger, not marksmen. I agree that the extra hp and armor doesn't do much, but again I said it's just my 5 man spec. I use motif of bravery before I pull and once I have my finishers up. It is a chore, and I don't do it unless I really care.

    As I said before, Ranger is better for raids and for ranged CP(though cadence isn't a bad opener ability).
    Last edited by Equis; 04-29-2011 at 06:58 AM.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker Nylian's Avatar
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    Pretty much what Equis said. Bard is viable for 5mans, if you like it for fun. Whatever. Worth noting that the decreased crit amount from street smarts means you take more damage (because you're being crit less).

    @ High toughness levels crits deal LESS damage than normal hits.

    Bahizret I suggest you fully read the skills and understand them before you take a difinitive stance on them.

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    k i think i have misunderstood the skill. i tought it said increases by 0.5 and maxes at 5% (the bonus)

    but it seems not that way my bad. anyway i never noticed the difference in dmg anyway (never raided why any spec that didn't take 51 riftstalker)

    and also if you take 5 points out of riftstalker that would still only be a loss of 2.5% mitigation wich is hardly worth saying. and you gain -> 2% from mm -> 6% dex some hit or autoattack dmg...

    it makes up for it in the end.
    "Guts were meant to be gutted."
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nylian View Post
    Worth noting that the decreased crit amount from street smarts means you take more damage (because you're being crit less).

    @ High toughness levels crits deal LESS damage than normal hits.
    Misinformation here. Before they fixed toughness, you were correct. It would reduce the extra damage of a crit so far it would be negative. Now it stops at 0, and won't actually make crits reduce damage done.

    Now toughness caps at 150 and does nothing past that point. Assuming 150 toughness, crits will hit you for the same damage as normal hits(varying obviously because damage isn't always the same).

  10. #10
    Soulwalker Nylian's Avatar
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    I presume you're referring to a raid boss?

    I was referring to experts where it starts to drop. Was this changed recently? I tested this last week.

    If it's changed since then - good to know and glad you brought it up.
    Last edited by Nylian; 04-29-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahizret View Post
    k i think i have misunderstood the skill. i tought it said increases by 0.5 and maxes at 5% (the bonus)

    but it seems not that way my bad. anyway i never noticed the difference in dmg anyway (never raided why any spec that didn't take 51 riftstalker)

    and also if you take 5 points out of riftstalker that would still only be a loss of 2.5% mitigation wich is hardly worth saying. and you gain -> 2% from mm -> 6% dex some hit or autoattack dmg...

    it makes up for it in the end.
    Also gotta factor in the loss of some nice moves from RS if you drop points from it.

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