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Thread: 5% Crit + 46AP vs: 15% Dex

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    Telaran Adrik Thorsen's Avatar
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    Default 5% Crit + 46AP vs: 15% Dex

    I've been playing around with a modification to my NB spec lately. I was one of the first rogues to go 43NB/17Sin/6Rng

    And I'm considering a little bit of a change here to something more like 44NB/17Sin/5Sab

    In both cases the rotation remains purely Nightblade with the points in Secondary and Tertiary trees being used only for the passives they provide. My understanding of the Dex scaling is that 15% Dex from the Sab build SHOULD provide a higher boost than the 5% Crit and 46AP buff from the Rng build. But my question is, at what point should it do so? There's got to be a base dex level at which 15% Dex is more of an improvement, I'm just questioning where that happens to be.

    If any rogues who are a tad more endgame and possibly have some more gearsets/old gear to play with would care to test this out and bring back their results I'd appreciate the input

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    Rift Disciple Wulfhunter's Avatar
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    In a direct comparison, I do not believe we are currently able to reach a point in gear where 15% Dexterity outweighs 5% critical strike and 46 AP. Obviously assuming that the +15% Dexterity is not applied in some odd fashion, which it might be, I don't know.

    I don't have testing to provide you with, though, since my gear is pretty poor. I'm working off the assumption here that our total Dexterity doesn't more than double between level 45 blue/green gear and epic raid gear.

    In my gear (322 Dexterity), I would gain ~1.83% crit and 24.5 AP from +15% Dexterity. Again, assuming the calculation isn't weird or anything. Also assuming my calculations for critical strike are correct.
    Last edited by Wulfhunter; 04-28-2011 at 07:09 PM.

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    Champion of Telara
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    You would need something above ~860 Dexterity to reach the same values Ranger gives.

    Until those values Sab tree isnt even being looked at.

    And even then i doubt i will ever change it..Having the capability to do some ranged damage when moving out is awesome..

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    yeah currently the +5% crit and 46 ap is higher than you can get from 15% dexterity.

    In a year or so... who knows, but for now the ranger results in better.

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    My understanding of the Dex scaling is that 15% Dex from the Sab build SHOULD provide a higher boost than the 5% Crit and 46AP buff from the Rng build.
    What makes you think that?

    5% crit is around 130 crit rating. 46 AP (thought it was 42?) is around 92 dex worth of crit.

    When does 15% of your Dex become 100? When you have 650+ Dex, you can consider it. At 700+ Dex, it becomes a viable option. At 750+, it becomes a good tradeoff.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    15% dex vs 5% crit and 46 AP?

    It's about 25 crit rating to get 1% crit. If you were to get 100 dex from the 15% dex talent, that would be 4% crit and 50 AP, which is about a breakeven, right(it's actually a little short).

    You would need ~670 Dex for the 15% dex to catch up. Even then it would be a little worse. Around 700 Dex it would pull ahead.

    Unless you really need that last talent point(6 ranger vs 5 Sab) I would go with ranger talents.
    Last edited by Equis; 04-29-2011 at 06:37 AM.

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    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrik Thorsen View Post
    I've been playing around with a modification to my NB spec lately. I was one of the first rogues to go 43NB/17Sin/6Rng

    And I'm considering a little bit of a change here to something more like 44NB/17Sin/5Sab

    In both cases the rotation remains purely Nightblade with the points in Secondary and Tertiary trees being used only for the passives they provide. My understanding of the Dex scaling is that 15% Dex from the Sab build SHOULD provide a higher boost than the 5% Crit and 46AP buff from the Rng build. But my question is, at what point should it do so? There's got to be a base dex level at which 15% Dex is more of an improvement, I'm just questioning where that happens to be.

    If any rogues who are a tad more endgame and possibly have some more gearsets/old gear to play with would care to test this out and bring back their results I'd appreciate the input
    which rotation with this build?

  8. #8
    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    though the sabo 15% dex looks like a nice puzzle piece to match up with the bladedancer +15% dexterity, though I have not put together a build yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
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    Telaran Adrik Thorsen's Avatar
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    Rotation(non-CD) is something like Fiery Spike x2, Ebon Strike, Primordial Strike, Blazing Fury followed by primordial strike x3, fiery spike(this is to boost the timer and keep 3 stacks up), Scourge of Darkness and then into a loop of primordial strike x4, primordial strike x2, ebon strike, blazing strike.

    CD Rotation with ebon fury shouldn't even need mention, but i only use it after the same first cycle of "Fiery Spike x2, Ebon Strike, Primordial Strike, Blazing Fury followed by primordial strike x3, fiery spike(this is to boost the timer and keep 3 stacks up), Scourge of Darkness"

    I was under the impression from RJ forums that dex provided a bit more of a boost than it does with 1dex=1ap and .5% pcrit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrik Thorsen View Post
    Rotation(non-CD) is something like Fiery Spike x2, Ebon Strike, Primordial Strike, Blazing Fury followed by primordial strike x3, fiery spike(this is to boost the timer and keep 3 stacks up), Scourge of Darkness and then into a loop of primordial strike x4, primordial strike x2, ebon strike, blazing strike.

    CD Rotation with ebon fury shouldn't even need mention, but i only use it after the same first cycle of "Fiery Spike x2, Ebon Strike, Primordial Strike, Blazing Fury followed by primordial strike x3, fiery spike(this is to boost the timer and keep 3 stacks up), Scourge of Darkness"

    I was under the impression from RJ forums that dex provided a bit more of a boost than it does with 1dex=1ap and .5% pcrit.
    Half of the things you just said aren't abilities....Ebon Strike? Primordial Strike? Blazing Fury? I'm guessing you mean dusk strike, primal strike and blazing strike.

    Though that rotation is terrible. Use SoD first, and only ever refresh fiery spike if you just SoD'ed. Otherwise Blazing strike does it for you! TF does more damage that primal as well and should be used on cooldown, if you put a talent point into it. Also you should probably have puncture, as it is a great 2 CP ability that every dps build gets really(beacuse you need 17 Sin for Crit damage bonus).
    Last edited by Equis; 04-29-2011 at 07:34 PM.

  11. #11
    Sword of Telara Atreiu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrik Thorsen View Post
    Primordial Strike
    I kinda loled at primordial strike

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrik Thorsen View Post
    Rotation(non-CD) is something like Fiery Spike x2, Ebon Strike, Primordial Strike, Blazing Fury followed by primordial strike x3, fiery spike(this is to boost the timer and keep 3 stacks up), Scourge of Darkness and then into a loop of primordial strike x4, primordial strike x2, ebon strike, blazing strike.
    I just want to remind you that Blazing fury(Strike) renews/adds a stack of Fiery spike on the target.
    Last edited by Atreiu; 04-29-2011 at 07:52 PM.

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  12. #12
    Plane Touched Soull's Avatar
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    pretty sure he knows that. he said he uses fiery spike again in the second rotation to keep spike up while he uses SoD next. after that, 5 points and blazing strike will keep it up until SoD again.

    and it is kinda good to use blazing strike first. if i use SoD first, i tend to pull aggro off the tank, even after waiting a good while before attacking. using blazing strike first, this doesn't happen.

    and yes, you should really get puncture. that way every rotation has a 2 pointer in it, resulting in more finishers.

  13. #13
    Telaran Adrik Thorsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soull View Post
    you should really get puncture. that way every rotation has a 2 pointer in it, resulting in more finishers.
    So essentially Puncture, Ebon Strike, Blazing Strike becomes every alternate rotation with 4x Primal Strikes as the other alternate rotation? perhaps then I should go 18sin(1 extra for Puncture)/42NB(Dropping Dark Containment as I don't use it in many fights these days)/6RNG?

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Cormyat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrik Thorsen View Post
    So essentially Puncture, Ebon Strike, Blazing Strike becomes every alternate rotation with 4x Primal Strikes as the other alternate rotation? perhaps then I should go 18sin(1 extra for Puncture)/42NB(Dropping Dark Containment as I don't use it in many fights these days)/6RNG?
    Dusk Strike. DUSK Strike.

    You want to use 1 2-point combo generator per rotation. So...

    You should already have 1 combo point from your last blazing strike finisher. Then...

    Puncture-->Twilight Force--> Primal Strike--> Blazing Strike (adds combo point)
    Dusk Strike--> Primal Strike --> Primal Strike --> Blazing Strike (adds combo point)
    At this point you'll probably be waiting for Puncture to come off CD so...
    Primal Strike--> Puncture --> Twilight Force --> Blazing Strike

    Use twilight force instead of primal strike whenever it's up.
    Use Scourge of Darkness instead of Blazing Strike whenever it's up.

    After using SoD, you'll need to refresh fiery spike which also, incidentally, gives you your first combo point in that rotation.

    Wait until the target is below 30% health to burn Ebon Fury unless you know the target's going to live more than 2 and a half minutes or so.
    Last edited by Cormyat; 04-30-2011 at 04:32 PM.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrik Thorsen View Post
    I've been playing around with a modification to my NB spec lately. I was one of the first rogues to go 43NB/17Sin/6Rng
    Wow! It's amazing how you know the spec of everyone who plays the game, and know that you were one of the first Rogues to try this combination which has been available since the start of the game. Before, even!

    I wish I had that omniscience.

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