+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 103

Thread: The thing about Rogues...

  1. #1
    Ascendant nand chan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,336

    Default The thing about Rogues...

    ...is that there's a huge gap between players who can play and players who can't.

    All of the rogues who know what they're doing know that rogues are probably the current highest DPS class and pretty OP in PvP, and are scared of the patch because it'll spawn a whole new wave of FotM builds in addition to getting called 'OP noobs' constantly just like pyros currently are.

    All of the rogues who don't know what they're doing think rogues are the laughingstock of the DPS world and think that the new patch doesn't do anything to fix them, and that they're "broken", should get a larger buff etc.

    Has anybody else noticed this huge discrepancy?

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    4,692

    Default

    we do less melee dps than both clerics and warriors

    we do less ranged dps than... well everyone

    we have very hard rotations to keep up to do less than everyone else

    sure player skill can mean a lot, but at the end of the day we are NOT satisfied.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  3. #3
    Ascendant nand chan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,336

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    we do less melee dps than both clerics and warriors

    we do less ranged dps than... well everyone

    we have very hard rotations to keep up to do less than everyone else

    sure player skill can mean a lot, but at the end of the day we are NOT satisfied.
    I've yet to see a warrior or cleric hit 1.5k melee DPS, or 1.2k ranged DPS.

    In fact, the only thing I could see topping us anytime soon are stormcallers at range, which honestly makes sense (if rogues were better than mages at range DPS, what would be the point in having a mage?)

  4. #4
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    70

    Default

    I have a feeling the discrepancies have something to do with people abusing the PvP soul's +20% damage to players, which is bugged and is affect mobs in pve, which is getting fixed in 1.2. Not to mention people are probably also using different parsers, so there's gonna be discrepancies there as well.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nand chan View Post
    ...is that there's a huge gap between players who can play and players who can't.

    All of the rogues who know what they're doing know that rogues are probably the current highest DPS class and pretty OP in PvP, and are scared of the patch because it'll spawn a whole new wave of FotM builds in addition to getting called 'OP noobs' constantly just like pyros currently are.

    All of the rogues who don't know what they're doing think rogues are the laughingstock of the DPS world and think that the new patch doesn't do anything to fix them, and that they're "broken", should get a larger buff etc.

    Has anybody else noticed this huge discrepancy?
    I personally feel like you're taking some pretty big leaps here. While there is certainly a very apparent skill gap with the class, and that skill gap seems to show more than most other DPS classes, I don't feel like rogues as a whole are quite where they should be.

    Take me for example. I am certainly not the best player in the world, but in previous games I consistently cleared content, did about as well on DPS meters as my class would allow me, and succeeded in organized PvP. Here in Rift I feel that my class is currently holding me back. Not as vastly, or nearly as terribly as the forums would have you believe, but many of the rogue souls feel under-tuned. Who knows, maybe I'm just terrible and was never able to accept that until now, but thats just my 2 cents.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    4,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nand chan View Post
    I've yet to see a warrior or cleric hit 1.5k melee DPS, or 1.2k ranged DPS.

    In fact, the only thing I could see topping us anytime soon are stormcallers at range, which honestly makes sense (if rogues were better than mages at range DPS, what would be the point in having a mage?)
    dunno what gear ur using, but never seen a rogue parse 1.5k dps, tho i believe it's possible with 2 relic daggers or whatever, either way warriors do that easily with the 47dps 2her and i HAVE seen parses for that, not to mention SC/ele parsing up to 1.7k. please go troll elsewhere.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    341

    Default

    nope...

    what i have noticed... every warrior, every mage can out dps pretty much any rogue that ive seen...

    if a rogue parses, a mage or warrior can parse higher... and if not, the other classes group make up isnt right...

    solo i would almost bet my house and my farm that a solo warrior and solo mage will out dps a solo rogue.. you can even put the rogue in higher lvl gear...

    i rolled a warrior up to lvl 44, my warrior hits alot harder and also takes more damage than my rogue ever thought about.... i am comparing from the gear out of lantern hook at level 42ish for both my rogue and warrior....

    my rogue is sitting in pretty much full epic and t2 gear, nearing rank 3 pvp, i have 4 pieces of rank2 gear.. i have abyssal hatchet and dull slicer of malice. i'm running 396 dex, 500ap/562 crit solo, i have never critted on anyone over 1600 , but i get critted on all the time from anywhere from 1500 to 3500... mages its the higher end, and they can do it relatively quickly... i have never seen a rogue hit anywhere near 3500crit


    as a rogue a mage will kick your ***, *** a rogue a champ/paragon will have you dead before you an get his health down 20%.. a cleric can heal through pretty much anything you throw at him..

    only way i can come close to dpsing is dpsing a group in a dungeon.. single target dps goes to crap...

    i run a nb/assassin/rng build and have to have a pet.. and i'm constantly energy starved on longer fights which delays casting times and causing dps to go to crap.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Our SC/ele did 1k5 on Warmaster Galenir with t2 gears. No pots buff, just raid banners.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nand chan View Post
    I've yet to see a warrior or cleric hit 1.5k melee DPS, or 1.2k ranged DPS.

    In fact, the only thing I could see topping us anytime soon are stormcallers at range, which honestly makes sense (if rogues were better than mages at range DPS, what would be the point in having a mage?)
    the warriors you run with must really suck... i've seen several warriors consistently doing well over 1500dps, i parsed one doing over 2k dps in expert rd..

  10. #10
    Koe
    Koe is offline
    Ascendant Koe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bungto View Post
    Our SC/ele did 1k5 on Warmaster Galenir with t2 gears. No pots buff, just raid banners.
    A majority of which is static discharge and is going to be properly allocated to the people that get the damage buff, rather than SC.

    Only reason SCs parse that high.

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara baph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    761

    Default

    (Speaking of PvP)

    It's a finesse class. Stealthy type usually is in most mmos. Good players know how to pick their targets and know what to do while un-stealthed.

    Players with good key-binds and the ability to move well have a much better chance to succeed. Keyboard turning clickers will get destroyed as this calling is very unforgiving and movement dependent.

    Finesse.
    Last edited by baph; 04-28-2011 at 06:30 PM.

  12. #12
    Ascendant nand chan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,336

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    dunno what gear ur using, but never seen a rogue parse 1.5k dps, tho i believe it's possible with 2 relic daggers or whatever, either way warriors do that easily with the 47dps 2her and i HAVE seen parses for that, not to mention SC/ele parsing up to 1.7k. please go troll elsewhere.
    Considering the fact that you even suggested using 2 relic daggers shows you know nothing about the class.

    And look around, I've seen plenty of nightblades parse 1.5k single target (no question SC/ele can do crazy amounts in AoE fights). Look at Jujus or Fore for an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    I have a feeling the discrepancies have something to do with people abusing the PvP soul's +20% damage to players, which is bugged and is affect mobs in pve, which is getting fixed in 1.2. Not to mention people are probably also using different parsers, so there's gonna be discrepancies there as well.
    The four best DPS rogues I know all don't use the infiltrator bug, or the weapon switching bug for that matter.

    For the record, I'm talking purely from a PvE perspective, though I've never lost a duel against a champion so I don't know what that other guy was rambling on about.
    Last edited by nand chan; 04-28-2011 at 07:08 PM.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    140

    Default

    Sigh the difference is what people consider acceptable. Sorry, but mathematically Rogues have lower dps than other classes. Now you may consider it high enough to not worry about but to say rogues have a higher dps is simply not true. It is simple, the maximum potential dps of a melee rogue is lower than a warrior. The maximum potential dps of a ranged rogue is lower than a mage.

    For some that is not acceptable, they want potential rogue dps to be even with the other classes. For others it doesn't matter as long as they can come within a few hundred they are happy. For still others they compare themselves to a few other people who do not play their class to it's fullest dps potential and assume rogues have better dps.

    For myself I think the changes will be fine for the most part. I still want Trion to fix the broken parts of the bladedancer that prevent it from being effective as a 51 point soul in end game, but that is really a seperate issue.

    Finally stop it with the skill thing. To say it takes skill or any special ability is laughable at best.

  14. #14
    Ascendant nand chan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,336

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyveth View Post
    Sigh the difference is what people consider acceptable. Sorry, but mathematically Rogues have lower dps than other classes. Now you may consider it high enough to not worry about but to say rogues have a higher dps is simply not true. It is simple, the maximum potential dps of a melee rogue is lower than a warrior. The maximum potential dps of a ranged rogue is lower than a mage.

    For some that is not acceptable, they want potential rogue dps to be even with the other classes. For others it doesn't matter as long as they can come within a few hundred they are happy. For still others they compare themselves to a few other people who do not play their class to it's fullest dps potential and assume rogues have better dps.

    For myself I think the changes will be fine for the most part. I still want Trion to fix the broken parts of the bladedancer that prevent it from being effective as a 51 point soul in end game, but that is really a seperate issue.

    Finally stop it with the skill thing. To say it takes skill or any special ability is laughable at best.
    Not once have I mentioned skill. Go re-read my original post with that in mind. What it takes to play a rogue effectively is an understanding of its mechanics and their underlying properties.

    If you know your class, and more importantly, know what you're doing, you'll be pushing the limits of what was thought possible. And that includes knowing that 51 point builds are garbage.
    Last edited by nand chan; 04-28-2011 at 07:52 PM.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nand chan View Post
    ...is that there's a huge gap between players who can play and players who can't.

    All of the rogues who know what they're doing know that rogues are probably the current highest DPS class and pretty OP in PvP, and are scared of the patch because it'll spawn a whole new wave of FotM builds in addition to getting called 'OP noobs' constantly just like pyros currently are.

    All of the rogues who don't know what they're doing think rogues are the laughingstock of the DPS world and think that the new patch doesn't do anything to fix them, and that they're "broken", should get a larger buff etc.

    Has anybody else noticed this huge discrepancy?
    Like everything you say this is a bunch of hogwash..

    1) you aren't good or special. Get your head out of your ***

    2) If 99% of people think differently than you...you're probably wrong!

    P.S. do you mind removing that creepy anime from your avatar / sig?
    Last edited by iceblock; 04-28-2011 at 08:23 PM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts