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Thread: Dodge or Dexterity

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Dodge or Dexterity

    This may be a noob question but I'll ask anyway. I'm 28 rift/34 blade/ 4 ***. I like playing with this build but am also looking to have a 51 riftstalker and taking a shot at tanking. When I'm looking for equipment I always look for dodge. Is there a difference between dodge and dexterity or does it matter? If a sword has 16 dex and another has 10 dex and 6 dodge is there a difference. Which stat is more important for my build and which for tanking. In what order should i be looking at stats. Thanks for the help.

  2. #2
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    dex not only gives equivilent dodge but other stats as well.

    1 dex = 1 dodge, 1 crit, 0.5 attack power

    1 dodge = 1 dodge ;)

    So in your example the sword with the 16 dexterity would be better, as not only would you get the 16 dodge, but you'd gain 3 more attack power and 6 more crit.

    Thats said, the dodge sword may have other stuff on it that makes it slightly better for tanking again, (such as a silly high str/parry score, more endurance or a special proc)

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealurface View Post
    This may be a noob question but I'll ask anyway. I'm 28 rift/34 blade/ 4 ***. I like playing with this build but am also looking to have a 51 riftstalker and taking a shot at tanking. When I'm looking for equipment I always look for dodge. Is there a difference between dodge and dexterity or does it matter? If a sword has 16 dex and another has 10 dex and 6 dodge is there a difference. Which stat is more important for my build and which for tanking. In what order should i be looking at stats. Thanks for the help.
    The 16 Dex and the 10 Dex/6 Dodge will give you the same amount of dodge (1 Dex = 1 Dodge) but you'll get other benefits from going with Dex over Dodge (AP, Crit Hit etc).

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Default Thanks

    Thanks for the quick replies. The info really helps.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
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    for tanking str = dex = dodge = parry. they are all equal, you do not need crit or AP for tanking, rogues have insane threat and have 0 threat issues once you get good weapons. with that said, i value str/parry higher than dex/dodge since it is so hard to hit the parry cap of 20% whereas it is super easy to get 30-40% dodge.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

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    attack power and crit still help, more damage from your tank is never a bad thing and it helps keep our threat above others.

    Also the issue with parry is that we only get about half as much parry rate per point of parry than we do dodge rate per point of dodge.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Any good healer will tell you to not stack avoidance but mitigation. IOW, don't stack parry, dodge, or block. This creates very spikey dmg and makes it hard to heal. A better way to go is to stack lots of health and mitigation (damage reduction). This way it makes you take less damage per hit, but the hits are consistent. Consider 50% dodge vs 50% dmg reduction. Over a given time period where 10k dmg was dealt, you'll take 5k in either case. Let's say it was dealt in 10 hits of 1k. With the dodge you take 1k, 0, 1k, 0, 1k, 0... With the mitigation, you take 500, 500, 500, 500... The healer can more easily deal with the latter. With that said, you should stack endurance till you're blue in the face, because a lot of the RS talents are % increase to endurance. So instead of taking 100 health on an item, take 10 endurance. They have the same base health, but the endurance bonus will apply to the latter and not the former. Here is a great build, imo, that supports the above ideas.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?rift...IuqdRkkR.xh.xb

    There is another build that breaks the above rules just a bit.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?rift...uqdRkkR.x0d.xb

    The idea of having BD is to have that 0pt ability that gives you 50% dodge for 15s. Think of it as an "OH CRAP" button that is very much like a shield wall. Given all the dodge you'll have already just by default, the 50% and the 5% from Quick Reflexes, when you pop this you'll have over 70% dodge. You can pop this when say a healer dies and you're low on heals why they brez and buff him up.

    Hope this helps, have fun!

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    A few problems with your statment Aluink

    first of all you can't stack mitigation as stats from gear, there is no weapons with -damage stats on em or such, best you could hope for is high armour which in its self is hard capped by the quality of the gear anyway (most gear of the same tier will have same armour regardless of stats)

    Secondly health doesn't really make it easier to heal, sure it gives more time to heal before their dead but at the expense of having to heal so much more, thus emptying the healers mana reserves that much faster, as long as you have enough hp to survive until the healer casts their heal thats all you really need.

    thirdly block (why this was mentioned in a ROGUE forum post I dont know) IS mitigation, the more block you have the more frequent you block and the more damage your block absorbs (as its not a complete removal of damage, just partial, think of it as a randomized rift guard for physical damage)

    Dodge and parry are the only 2 defensive attributes a rogue can stack via stats, everything else comes down to skills and talents.

    Also there is no + health items in the game that I've seen... and 10 endurance would be 90 health not 100 in anycase, and empty health is one of the worst things you can ever stack as a tank.

  9. #9
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    on 10 endurance would be more than 90 hp on a rs sorry, but having higher avoidance would be better than over inflated hp scores.

  10. #10
    Isz
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    4 stars for a very informative thread

  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    when your first start getting geared up, be careful what you stack and ignore...can give you very lopsided tanking.

    i first started thinking health was be all and end all...had stuff with big endurance on it, sometimes at cost of +hit or dex, and put endurance runes on everything...sure i got 11000 health, but i still die like a mofo....

    and as this thread points out...some people go for the +dodge, at expense of dex sometimes, and this is just not good, cause dex gives you dodge and other nice stuff too.

    in fact at one point, i re-equipped some of my dps gear, which has +hit and lotsa dex and found i was actrually mitigating and doging better ofc...so be careful not to get too coned in with certain stats.

    get good dex, more dex the better...will give you the dodge as a byproduct....piece of gear with good dex AND dodge is even better hehe. some of the lesser essences from raid rifts have this, they're sweet to load up on.

    DONT neglect +hit....if you cant hit anything, you cant hold aggro....

  12. #12
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    nor get combo points for rift guard ;) one of the biggest obstacles I faced tanking akala in t1 gear was hitting her enough to keep guard up ><

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    Default my 2copper

    I'm not going to comment in +hit. You're going to have obvious issues if you miss. So i'm gong to stick to the defensive stat priorities.

    Once you reach a point where the damage is physically healable aluink is correct in stating Effective health (HP and mitigation) over avoidance. This is true because of overhealing. Especially in the hardest content available, but also in groups, you will be healing prior to tanks taking damage. This is one of the biggest factors in determining whether a group is successful. Because of this, regardless of whether the tank avoids damage you will be casting heals.

    Secondly, worst case scenarios are when the tank dies. As you hum along at normal damage levels the tank will be healed just peachy regardless of mitigation vs avoidance. However, avoidance does nothing for worst case scenarios. For equivalent points of mitigation and avoidance the tank takes the same average damage over the same amount of time, however the standard deviation is much higher with avoidance.

    While health is not mitigation it directly affects the mean time to death of a tank without heals. 1% health and 1% avoidance will average over infinite scenarios to the same time for the tank to die.

    The mean time to death will not always be directly proportional because you don't start at 0% avoidance or 0% mitigation and as you have more of one stat the other becomes more valuable. In any case, at each gear level these priorities should be examined. However, it will always be the case that damage deviation will always be greater, or equal with more avoidance.

    This is why, in my opinion, the 3 tier 2 points in ranger are among the best defensive talents for any tank spec in the game.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasorine View Post
    on 10 endurance would be more than 90 hp on a rs sorry
    The actual numbers might be off, that's besides the point.

    but having higher avoidance would be better than over inflated hp scores.
    You missed the main point of my post. The point was to reduce spike damage while having more general % damage reduction.

    After that, I disagree with you and think a tank should then go for more HP. As a tank your main goal is to hold threat. You can't do that when you're dead, so once you can hold threat your next goal is to stay alive. DMG mitigation aside (dodge vs % reduction), you need HP. If you can't live through a boss's crit, then what's the point.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5iL3Nc3R View Post
    I'm not going to comment in +hit. You're going to have obvious issues if you miss. So i'm gong to stick to the defensive stat priorities.

    Once you reach a point where the damage is physically healable aluink is correct in stating Effective health (HP and mitigation) over avoidance. This is true because of overhealing. Especially in the hardest content available, but also in groups, you will be healing prior to tanks taking damage. This is one of the biggest factors in determining whether a group is successful. Because of this, regardless of whether the tank avoids damage you will be casting heals.

    Secondly, worst case scenarios are when the tank dies. As you hum along at normal damage levels the tank will be healed just peachy regardless of mitigation vs avoidance. However, avoidance does nothing for worst case scenarios. For equivalent points of mitigation and avoidance the tank takes the same average damage over the same amount of time, however the standard deviation is much higher with avoidance.

    While health is not mitigation it directly affects the mean time to death of a tank without heals. 1% health and 1% avoidance will average over infinite scenarios to the same time for the tank to die.

    The mean time to death will not always be directly proportional because you don't start at 0% avoidance or 0% mitigation and as you have more of one stat the other becomes more valuable. In any case, at each gear level these priorities should be examined. However, it will always be the case that damage deviation will always be greater, or equal with more avoidance.

    This is why, in my opinion, the 3 tier 2 points in ranger are among the best defensive talents for any tank spec in the game.
    Wow, I didn't want to open with terms like StdDev and mToD, but good post. Clearly I agree, but I like your presentation, I find it easier to read than my own post ;) Thanks!

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