+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: [Riftstalker] Guardian Phase damage reduction?

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Kudaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    209

    Default [Riftstalker] Guardian Phase damage reduction?

    Honestly not understanding the point of the whole 30% damage reduction... Regardless what our damage is, we're still pulling threat, and we still have to work to keep that threat. If they did it so people wouldn't spec into for non-tank purposes, then why wouldn't they just move the ability into a later portion of the tree? Only making this thread to try and grasp why that's there, not wanting them to change it or anything.
    And if this post makes no sense it's because I'm tired. Or something.

  2. #2
    Banned U₪ʭ҉¥ _Ħ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Rift Beta->Release
    Posts
    65

    Default

    The Issue is, "How deep" do you want to move it in the Riftstalker tree, so that people don't multisoul it for a massive load of survivability`?

    Keep in Mind Riftstalker is a tanking Soul, So you need to be able to TANK Realm of the Fae / Iron Tomb around LVL 15+

    I would like to propose a different solution, people need to use Phantom Blow which moves high in the Tree to also reduce the Damage Penalty. No DPS Rogue in his sane Mind would then spec 31 Points for a Tanking Skill to nullify the 30% Damage Penalty of Guardian Phase. (Which he needs to Stack and keep up).

    Phantom Blow: Now additionally removes -10% of the Guardian Phase Damage penalty with each and up to three Stacks.
    Last edited by U₪ʭ҉¥ _Ħ; 04-08-2011 at 12:55 AM.

  3. #3
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kudaran View Post
    Honestly not understanding the point of the whole 30% damage reduction... Regardless what our damage is, we're still pulling threat, and we still have to work to keep that threat. If they did it so people wouldn't spec into for non-tank purposes, then why wouldn't they just move the ability into a later portion of the tree? Only making this thread to try and grasp why that's there, not wanting them to change it or anything.
    And if this post makes no sense it's because I'm tired. Or something.
    IMO, they wanted to make it easily accessible for lower level tanks.

  4. #4
    Banned U₪ʭ҉¥ _Ħ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Rift Beta->Release
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Since i can't Edit, to get more Specific.
    • Remove that useless 6 Point Track ability! And set anything below 38 Points of the ability list one step down.
    • Phantom Blow is now a 16 Point Tier 4 ability of the Riftstalker Tree. Each Phantom blow now additionally removes 5% damage penalty of Guardian Phase. (Guardian Phase needs 16 Points to unlock now)
    • At 32 Points you get the new passive ability [Phantom Rift Guardian] that Increases the Phantom Blow damage penalty removal of Guardian Phase for additional 5%.

      So each Phantom Blow removes 10% Damage Penalty of Guardian Phase to a total of 30% with three stacks. (No damage penalty anymore)
    Last edited by U₪ʭ҉¥ _Ħ; 04-08-2011 at 01:13 AM.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    368

    Default

    Your solution seems too convoluted. If you want to remove the damage reduction for tanks only, just modify imp guardian phase to also reduce the damage reduction penalty by 3% for every point spent in RS after 26. So if you spend at least 36 points, the damage reduction will drop to 0.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Hokonoso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    4,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by U₪ʭ҉¥ _Ħ View Post
    The Issue is, "How deep" do you want to move it in the Riftstalker tree, so that people don't multisoul it for a massive load of survivability`?

    Keep in Mind Riftstalker is a tanking Soul, So you need to be able to TANK Realm of the Fae / Iron Tomb around LVL 15+

    I would like to propose a different solution, people need to use Phantom Blow which moves high in the Tree to also reduce the Damage Penalty. No DPS Rogue in his sane Mind would then spec 31 Points for a Tanking Skill to nullify the 30% Damage Penalty of Guardian Phase. (Which he needs to Stack and keep up).

    Phantom Blow: Now additionally removes -10% of the Guardian Phase Damage penalty with each and up to three Stacks.
    best idea yet... however endgame t2/gsm tanking we pull more single target threat than anyone. no one pulls off us on bosses, warriors and clerics lose threat day and night and it's not even funny...

    bottom line, our threat is fine, our dps is just too low.
    Useful Rogue guides since I don't want to answer 50 billion questions anymore:
    Marksman, Ranger, Nightblade, Blink'Blade, Asstalker, Assdancer, and finally The Hoko Spec™
    Hoko, teaching noobs the way of rogue pve until 12/20/11.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker Kryptyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    471

    Default

    Another solution would be to simply increase the threat modifier. Say 150% increase to threat generation. Tanking Greenscale I can say that my only issue is securing threat on the initial few seconds of the fight. Granted I don't have either of the two Greater Essences that proc threat (they never drop!)

    Damage really means nothing if they can make up for it in threat generation. Right now in a raid setting with people in optimal gear and buffs Riftstalkers seem to have aggro issues. Our survivability seems much better than a Warriors though.

    My only other beef is that Defer Death feels like a cheap waste of a skill, I wish the mechanic on it was changed.
    Kryptyx - Guildless ;( - Raidcruit me!
    Riftstalker BIS Spreadsheet

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Khroul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    307

    Default

    Snip -- Misread the OP. thought he was referring to PVP
    Last edited by Khroul; 04-08-2011 at 05:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadzio View Post
    mages are supposed to just stand still thus ground of strength

    l2p scrub
    I found Gersh's Smurf account!
    (I wish this dude was being sarcastic)
    Having problems with PVP as a Rogue @ 50? Click Here

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Ghoest9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    367

    Default

    Since warriors can easily out dps a rogue shouldnt it be easy for a DPS rogue to tank abilites on par with those DPS warriors?
    Wherever You Went - Here You Are

    Goest on Sunrest

    I kill red people.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Kudaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Absalon View Post
    Your solution seems too convoluted. If you want to remove the damage reduction for tanks only, just modify imp guardian phase to also reduce the damage reduction penalty by 3% for every point spent in RS after 26. So if you spend at least 36 points, the damage reduction will drop to 0.
    Thought this was a great idea. It'll at least throw us up close to the damage that Cleric and Warrior tanks are doing, which is what I think should already have happened...

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    458

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptyx View Post
    Another solution would be to simply increase the threat modifier. Say 150% increase to threat generation. Tanking Greenscale I can say that my only issue is securing threat on the initial few seconds of the fight. Granted I don't have either of the two Greater Essences that proc threat (they never drop!)

    Damage really means nothing if they can make up for it in threat generation. Right now in a raid setting with people in optimal gear and buffs Riftstalkers seem to have aggro issues. Our survivability seems much better than a Warriors though.

    My only other beef is that Defer Death feels like a cheap waste of a skill, I wish the mechanic on it was changed.
    but see more dmg = more threat. think about it 30% more dmg so all your ability's who have 140% more threat will do 30% more dmg. each dmg is also threat. so it will increase your threat by a nice ammount.

  12. #12
    Sword of Telara Fasc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    841

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kudaran View Post
    Honestly not understanding the point of the whole 30% damage reduction... Regardless what our damage is, we're still pulling threat, and we still have to work to keep that threat. If they did it so people wouldn't spec into for non-tank purposes, then why wouldn't they just move the ability into a later portion of the tree? Only making this thread to try and grasp why that's there, not wanting them to change it or anything.
    And if this post makes no sense it's because I'm tired. Or something.
    Two implications:

    PvE: With the need to have Guardian Phase low in the tree for Tanking early on and thus the ease of access to the skill, theoretically a heavily DPS oriented "Tank" Rogue could pull off otherwise unintended things by doing simultaneous high damage and taking very little. Since Rogues AREN'T the massive OP DPSers that they could be compared to others, this worry is exactly how I stated it "theoretical."

    PvP: Similar to the above problem, but more likely even with our present state of relative DPS and competitiveness. Look at the complaints about Pyro "tankiness" that gets complained about with all the damage and other stuff they have.

    Now as for scaling in PvE, it isn't harmful to us at all. We have some massive TPS modifiers that make us scale very very well, even when using non-bonus threat skills like say Twin Strike or Weapon Flare for AoE. Yes we don't pull the numbers of other Tanks so easily in our traditional specs, but we hold, we don't have to work all that hard for it, and we'll continue to hold as we move forward from here.

    No one has really done any sort of definitive parsing and compare/contrast of the various Tanks and the damage they deal while doing single target and multi target Tanking, so take some of the anecdotes people toss around with a massive grain of salt. I do know that if they removed the damage penalty from the skill somewhere in the tree, our threat modifiers would see a drop as a result. Improved Guarded Steel could instead eliminate the DPS penalty but no longer grant a TPS bonus which could net us the same overall TPS but give us a DPS boost only if you're pretty deep into the tree and using GS as a finisher.
    General Tank Theorycrafting: Have numbers? Post them up!
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...eturns-and-You!

  13. #13
    Plane Walker Kryptyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoest9 View Post
    Since warriors can easily out dps a rogue shouldnt it be easy for a DPS rogue to tank abilites on par with those DPS warriors?
    Actually rogues can out DPS warriors now if played right, and mages out dps both. Also Rogue tanks are better than warriors in terms of survivability.

    Quote Originally Posted by bahizret View Post
    but see more dmg = more threat. think about it 30% more dmg so all your ability's who have 140% more threat will do 30% more dmg. each dmg is also threat. so it will increase your threat by a nice ammount.
    Yes but what does it matter if you have damage or threat? That was my point, to make up with the 30% reduced damage they could simply counter it with more threat than whats currently given, nullifying the lost threat from the lower damage.
    Kryptyx - Guildless ;( - Raidcruit me!
    Riftstalker BIS Spreadsheet

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    162

    Default

    I get the feeling it's to keep soloing in line. I take so little damage solo that healing it up with rift scavenger is pretty trivial, even after the nerfs. If you reduced guardian phase's dps handicap, I'd actually take even less damage because I killed stuff faster. So I'd be killing faster with less risk and still zero downtime.

    Now, I haven't played other tanks lately, but I get the impression I currently solo at a pace that's on par with them from duoing rifts with a paladin buddy on my non-healing mage.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts