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Thread: Rogue DPS is NOT that bad! stop being lill girsl about it!

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    Telaran IshmaelEmberstorm's Avatar
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    Default Rogue DPS is NOT that bad! stop being lill girsl about it!

    After patch i'm sure like most of you i was depressed about rogue dps sucks... Only thing is only way i knew we sucked so bad was from lookin at this cry babby *** forums. So i spent 20 plat respecing and testing, rinse n repeat. I roll 2 diff specs for dungeons... a bd33/sin18/nb15 for trash and rgr32/sabo23/nb10 for boss n ranged fights (800-1300 aoe dps- 400-500 single dps) and my wpns aren't above 26dps. Now i normly only run T1's n T2's, no raiding. But from wat i can tell, my parser tells me in ALL the groups i run Rogues dont do that bad in dps. I never see any 700dps players in my groups... standard seems to be 500-600 OVERAL mind you! OVERALL! with 300-high 400's on boss's. This seems to be about par with the warriors and mages i roll with. QQ all you want aboout gear bad players yada yada, but i dont think rogues are that bad off. U all need to STOP CRYING and put some effort into your class. STOP worrying about the target dummy dps. That means very lill compared to running a parser on a full expert run. Stay alive, do solid dps, dont pull agro... its simple for a rogue all these things are prety easy for our class to do. Stop crying, gear up, and play! Rogue's are NOT gimmped!

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    Ascendant Dinadass's Avatar
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    Your DPS is bad compared to good rogues. The DPS players you run with are bad compared to good DPS war/mage/clerics. Correct these two things and you'll see what people are complaining about.

    <Ascendant> 13/13 Seastone Defiant

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    Rift Disciple
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    I like the positive attitude a lot, but all the positive attitudes in the world can't change the fact that rogues are extremely underpowered, and the best "melee" spec is full ranger. Trion has some major work to do on fixing assassin, blade dancer, sab and marks to make them competitive again.

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    Telaran IshmaelEmberstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinadass View Post
    Your DPS is bad compared to good rogues. The DPS players you run with are bad compared to good DPS war/mage/clerics. Correct these two things and you'll see what people are complaining about.

    Were did i say that my DPS or the groups i ran with were good. I said my dps as a rogue was on par with the other players that are obviously not as uber as you are... "chuckle." The games been out wat... a month i doubt the majority of players are "geared", and from wat i can tell rogues arent that gimped.

    But i'm glad one of the lill girls that complain could stop by my thread and bump it

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by IshmaelEmberstorm View Post
    Were did i say that my DPS or the groups i ran with were good. I said my dps as a rogue was on par with the other players that are obviously not as uber as you are... "chuckle." The games been out wat... a month i doubt the majority of players are "geared", and from wat i can tell rogues arent that gimped.

    But i'm glad one of the lill girls that complain could stop by my thread and bump it
    Well by your logic rogues are clearly OP because I dominate my friend the melee mage and my other friend the naked weaponless warrior in DPS all the time! I'm not sure what the "chuckle" is about. The QQing about rogue dps is coming from the top end of content where the differences are VERY apparent and also are very relevant to the outcome of an encounter. Your attack on those people for complaining about imbalance makes just as much sense as me making fun of you for not realizing how OP your calling is compared to melee mages and weaponless warriors.

    (As an addendum, wouldn't an actual melee mage soul be awesome? =D)

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    Ascendant Dinadass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IshmaelEmberstorm View Post
    I said my dps as a rogue was on par with the other players that are obviously not as uber as you are...
    Exactly. Players doing harder content than you, wearing better gear than you, with more experience than you, have all seen rogues fall behind in DPS. I'm glad you're keeping up with other people at your current place in the game, but to assume that it holds true for every other tier of the game is dumb.

    <Ascendant> 13/13 Seastone Defiant

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    Plane Walker Montezuma's Avatar
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    Why are all the posters who say rogues are fine write like a 10 year olds Are using words like "crying", "noobs", "l2p" and are using CAPS on top.

    It is getting pathetic on these boards.

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    Telaran Noirvetica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuishe View Post
    (As an addendum, wouldn't an actual melee mage soul be awesome? =D)
    If only my beloved HoX could be remade in this game

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    Rift Disciple
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    After lots of tweaking, theorycrafting, and more platinum spent on respecs than I'd care to mention, I've created a manageable melee DPS that does pretty good in PVP. I can handle 1 on 1, or even 1 on 2 situations well enough with proper use of cooldowns, potions, and CC.

    The problem is, though, is that the level of effectiveness I've attained through all this practice and nuanced strategy only gets me to being competitive. All souls should be competitive out of the box. Min/Max'ing should net you above average results, not get you back to average.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara Sozu's Avatar
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    Hmm, I agree with the OP that Rogues are really not as gimpy as people are making them out to be. But your DPs numbers are ridiculously low lol.

    Our Rogues almost hang with warriors on the DPS charts in Greenscale. And we have some of the top Warriors on the server.

    I think when people say that Rogues are underpowered, what they really mean is "Rogues are NOT OP, *cry cry cry* I must re-roll to the flavor of the month*"
    Last edited by Sozu; 04-07-2011 at 10:13 AM.

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    Plane Touched
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    I would say that the issue is that rogues have to work harder and get better geared to be comparable to warrior dps. Mage dps heh i wish.

    The best build for rogues in a raid setting doesn't just keep up with warriors it can out parse them. I normally can trade back and forth top melee dps with either of our main dps warriors.
    Last edited by kyth; 04-07-2011 at 11:50 AM.

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    Rift Disciple Chotu's Avatar
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    I hate the whole "my rogue buddy can dps XXX in a raid l2p nubz" argument. It's true, but do you even realize why? it's because of energy buffs. Rogues are the MOST energy deprived class when it comes to dpsing. You don't always have an energy reduction buff when it comes to T2 experts (that's when the difference in dps is very apparent) a bard will increase my dps by about 200-300 (HUGE difference). But most groups will generally take a bard for the fervor and not another rogue without realizing that fervor actually helps the rogue more than any other class out there. Chloro's also have an energy cost reduction buff, but they do not have "Verse of Joy" which really puts our dps out there. (the 3 percent difference between the chloro's buff and the bards buff makes a huge difference to a rogue)

    Yes when certain conditions are met and the stars align, we can be great, but that doesn't happen outside of a 20 man raid setting (even then warriors are higher by a good degree) When you actually play a rogue, you will realize how much the rogues in ur raid have to work to get that dps. It's not a joke, our rotations have to be DAMN perfect (which is alot more work than you think). whereas warriors can spam 2 macros and do more.

    Think of it like this, we have 1s GCD. Most are skills are 30energy+. Which means that after the initial burst, we are generally out of energy, and stay that way for the remainder of the fight. Our 1 sec GCD becomes 1.5s for a 30 energy attack and 2s for a 40 energy attack. With that in mind you will realize that the BladeDancer spec does higher on a dummy because it has energy saving options, whereas other NB specs will outperform it in a raid setting due to it generally having more damage options.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that now pretty much all rogues are pidgeon-holed to the NB soul. That's the part i don't like. I don't want rogues buffed as a whole. NB are fine right where it is, but some of our other souls need some serious tweaks.
    Last edited by Chotu; 04-07-2011 at 12:11 PM.
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  13. #13
    Plane Walker Kristi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IshmaelEmberstorm View Post
    Were did i say that my DPS or the groups i ran with were good. I said my dps as a rogue was on par with the other players that are obviously not as uber as you are... "chuckle." The games been out wat... a month i doubt the majority of players are "geared", and from wat i can tell rogues arent that gimped.

    But i'm glad one of the lill girls that complain could stop by my thread and bump it
    Rogues are gimped compared to others. There have been numerous parses linked showing it. All of your insults and wishful thinking won't change that fact. As for 'little girls', I find that most 'little boys' complain far more than girls. If you want to post some parses supporting your statement, do so, until then you are wasting everyones time.

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    Rift Disciple mambome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
    I hate the whole "my rogue buddy can dps XXX in a raid l2p nubz" argument. It's true, but do you even realize why? it's because of energy buffs. Rogues are the MOST energy deprived class when it comes to dpsing. You don't always have an energy reduction buff when it comes to T2 experts (that's when the difference in dps is very apparent) a bard will increase my dps by about 200-300 (HUGE difference). But most groups will generally take a bard for the fervor and not another rogue without realizing that fervor actually helps the rogue more than any other class out there. Chloro's also have an energy cost reduction buff, but they do not have "Verse of Joy" which really puts our dps out there. (the 3 percent difference between the chloro's buff and the bards buff makes a huge difference to a rogue)

    Yes when certain conditions are met and the stars align, we can be great, but that doesn't happen outside of a 20 man raid setting (even then warriors are higher by a good degree) When you actually play a rogue, you will realize how much the rogues in ur raid have to work to get that dps. It's not a joke, our rotations have to be DAMN perfect (which is alot more work than you think). whereas warriors can spam 2 macros and do more.

    Think of it like this, we have 1s GCD. Most are skills are 30energy+. Which means that after the initial burst, we are generally out of energy, and stay that way for the remainder of the fight. Our 1 sec GCD becomes 1.5s for a 30 energy attack and 2s for a 40 energy attack. With that in mind you will realize that the BladeDancer spec does higher on a dummy because it has energy saving options, whereas other NB specs will outperform it in a raid setting due to it generally having more damage options.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that now pretty much all rogues are pidgeon-holed to the NB soul. That's the part i don't like. I don't want rogues buffed as a whole. NB are fine right where it is, but some of our other souls need some serious tweaks.
    If energy is one of the primary limiting factors on rogue DPS how do Bladedancers, with energy return on finishers perform compared to other specs? I've heard claims that BD is useless except for soloing, but as the only soul with energy enhancment it could be a significant boon.

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser Ghoest9's Avatar
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    With respect to PVE the problem isnt simply that the best rogues do the same DPS as average warriors.

    Its that those same warriors are much tougher than the best DPS rogues.

    And if the rogues decide to use range to deal with theiir squishiness then they do even worse DPS.
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