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Thread: Rogues are energy starved.

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    Plane Touched Solace's Avatar
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    Default Rogues are energy starved.

    we have a 1s GCD but we rarely benefit from that in a long fight. it seems like other damage dealers have ways to keep their energy/mana healthy. i know rogues have a few ways but they are not viable for a damage build.

    also i'd like to ask that serpent strike be changed to 8s cool down instead of 10s

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    Rift Disciple Harkonis's Avatar
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    Having put in about 12 days played on my rogue (granted a fair amount was afk in town, but whatever) I can definitely say energy usage is fine. Bladedancer if you're really having trouble, but you shouldn't be.

    I could go for a quicker cooldown on Serpent Strike though. 8 might be good, 6 might be a bit much.

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    Plane Touched Solace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkonis View Post
    Having put in about 12 days played on my rogue (granted a fair amount was afk in town, but whatever) I can definitely say energy usage is fine. Bladedancer if you're really having trouble, but you shouldn't be.

    I could go for a quicker cooldown on Serpent Strike though. 8 might be good, 6 might be a bit much.
    really? it feels very slow for me during long fights without fervor. the way energy regenerates is a bit strange too. it seems to regenerate slower after you use a skill but then speeds up. maybe that's how the devs want it. the 1s GCD is for burst only?
    Last edited by Solace; 04-06-2011 at 01:57 PM.

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    Telaran
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    So, you're saying 30 energy cost is fine, with a 20/sec regen? Except the initial burst, it's pretty much a disguised 1.5 sec GCD, 2 sec if you wanna use some 40 energy abilities. It may work decently for PvP, where you've killed or lost in the first few seconds of engage, but in PvE? Noo.

    Outside of grinding solo trash with a BD/RS/NB build, naturally, where energy and health are normally never any problems.

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    Plane Touched
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    As a rogue you're pretty much BD or you need a bard/chloro and possibly whichever mage spec had the party energy/mana regen, assuming it wasn't removed since beta. Only been dabbling with SC and chloro since then.

    I've found energy usually isn't a problem in a raid, but unless I'm a BD, it sucks for soloing and smaller WFs. Bigger the raid, more likely whatever buffs I need are available.

    It sucks, but apparantly Trion decided that making rogues so buff dependent was fair.

  6. #6
    Gox
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    As i have said before it seems like trion tried balanced rogue dmg around 1s gcd and no energy issues..

    but in reality we have a 1.5s gcd but still have all our skills treated as if we have unlimited energy at any time.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander wewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kungfuchknoodle View Post
    As a rogue you're pretty much BD or you need a bard/chloro and possibly whichever mage spec had the party energy/mana regen, assuming it wasn't removed since beta. Only been dabbling with SC and chloro since then.

    I've found energy usually isn't a problem in a raid, but unless I'm a BD, it sucks for soloing and smaller WFs. Bigger the raid, more likely whatever buffs I need are available.

    It sucks, but apparantly Trion decided that making rogues so buff dependent was fair.
    Energy is a BIG problem w/ rogues (ranged especially) -- definitely limits dps.

    one of a thousand reasons my sub isn't being renewed..thanks for the free month trion (got hacked x_X)!
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    Plane Touched xarael's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm hanging up my ranged rogue (MM/*whatever soul supposedly helps it in PVE which doesn't*/*blah*) because of the total lack of burst to justify the high energy costs. In fact, I'm just going to start back playing on Guildwars since I never even finished the Prophecies campaign. It's just a sad fact that developers at Trion are either too busy with other things to notice the problem or they have a totally divergent vision for the rogue calling that doesn't match the interpretations of the rogue souls (sans Riftstalker which was quite consistent with its descriptions). It' just too much frustration where you're getting your butt handed to you in PVE by mobs 3 levels lower than you despite grinding zone invasions to get the planarite and shards to buy the blue and purple gear for your level.

    Trion really needs to take the rogues back to beta in some fashion. Maybe not literal beta, but they need to bring back a QA team to work on all rogue souls to find out the issues they have in PVE and possibly PVP which isn't even half the game but it does need to have some viability there, too. I know the typical response will be it's a new game, blah blah blah, but the fact remains rogues flatly suck to play even when you work out rotations and specs. It's more hard work plus pure luck that any one person can make them work in PVE.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Solace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gox View Post
    As i have said before it seems like trion tried balanced rogue dmg around 1s gcd and no energy issues..

    but in reality we have a 1.5s gcd but still have all our skills treated as if we have unlimited energy at any time.
    yeah i think they need to look into this further. especially if weapon normalization is related to GCD.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara Gwailo's Avatar
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    Even with the best energy saving in game at the moment, we don't have 1 second global cooldown. 13% from bard shaves off 4pts from 30, not 10.

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    Rift Chaser mercilous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkonis View Post
    Having put in about 12 days played on my rogue (granted a fair amount was afk in town, but whatever) I can definitely say energy usage is fine. Bladedancer if you're really having trouble, but you shouldn't be.

    I could go for a quicker cooldown on Serpent Strike though. 8 might be good, 6 might be a bit much.
    Jagged > Puncture > Impale > Serpent > out of energy. So basically if you don't kill in your opener (speaking for assassins), you better be ready for a long fight.

    On the flip side, my warrior never runs out of power. What's the point of the 1.5 GCD if we can't make good use of it. I've stood by melee rogues since beta, but I'm slowly starting to wear down.
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  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    I have also mentioned this very thing in other threads. I am not giving up though, I love my rogue to death. I have a nice ranged mode for when I am feeling lazy (which is often) and a melee mode for when I want to be sneaksy (which has happened a lot more lately). Now both specs are for questing, although my ranger spec will do fine in groups as well. Energy is a big deal, and when it gets fixed I believe it will contribute to higher parses which will alleviate a good chunk of the main problem people have with rogues. I see no reason energy costs can't be reduced to be more on par with current regen rates and gcd. I don't have much experience with warriors, but so far I have yet to be spammed with not enough energy messages. Clerics and mages both have several abilities that grant them mana returns. At least one ability in over half their souls has this, so it is pretty rare to see a build that has no mana return. Rogues? Two? I think? I don't really play bard, and have not used my BD spec enough to see how it performs - although having a little extra energy I think is another way that will help with it. So to summarize: I am hanging in there in the hope that Trion addresses this energy issue in some fashion (there are several options to choose from) and thus we will see improvement.

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    Rift Chaser Ailurion's Avatar
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    I find this to be more of a problem with ranged specs, I have no problem with BD/Sin.


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  14. #14
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailurion View Post
    I find this to be more of a problem with ranged specs, I have no problem with BD/Sin.
    Try a melee spec without BD.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Adnoz's Avatar
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    I don't understand how rogues can say that they are fine with energy in this thread, basic maths tells us that this is not possible. It goes like this.
    Mr Rogue gets paid every second. Each second he makes 20 pennies. Mr Rogue also has a family he has to provide food for, and that costs him 30 pennies every second. So every second, Mr Rogue loses 10 pennies. Thankfully Mr Rogue was smart and put away 100 pennies in case he ever needed it.
    Oh no! after 10 seconds Mr Rogue has already spent all of his pennies! Now he doesn't have any pennies, and his children don't have enough food to eat and are starving :<!

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