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Thread: Terk's Guide to Marksman PVP

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Unit Five's Avatar
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    Default Terk's Guide to Marksman PVP

    Due to ninja downtime, I thought I would share a build I put together yesterday with you-all.

    40 MM / 21 SIN / 5 INF
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...z.E0toqdVhdR.x

    THEORY

    I think permanent, fast stealth is a great utility tool for any level of PvP since it allows you to gain position and scout out control points quickly. I was dead-set on using MM as the main soul since it's what I have been playing in PvP since launch and I enjoy it. The trick was finding ways and tactics to make it more effective. I added the 5 points in Infiltrator for Cloudy Poison. The 10% armor pen seems pretty "meh" but any damage increase is welcome.

    SET-UP

    I usually run with Cloudy Poison and Leeching Poison together. On a team with good heals, I usually switch Leeching out for Lethal for the 5% crit bonus to my teammates. Cloudy + Leeching works great in situations where you can use Fan Out on their back line. It can slow the incoming damage to your team and the heals to the opponents very effectively.

    Keep in mind that poisons can be changed without breaking stealth. If you find yourself entering a 1v1 against a non-caster class, you can change your poisons before starting combat

    TACTICS AND SYNERGY

    I wrote a longer post on how to use MM effectively for PvP objectives once upon a time, but I will summarize it here. MM has great crowd control abilities for escorting flag/fang carriers, and great persistent AoE for covering capturable objectives. In this spec in particular, Improved Repelling Shot (followed by static shot in some instances) and Crossfire can help effortlessly peel mean melee players off of your flag carrier. The addition of Malicious Strike to the MM arsenal makes repelling shot much more effective.

    Let's say you have a single melee attacking your fang carrier. Run in, slap a malicious strike on them, and follow it up with a repelling shot. Voila! Instant ranged snare. You've just bought your carrier 3-4 extra seconds to reposition or just run like hell.

    Cloak and Dagger is another critical talent choice for this build. The only attack I've used out of stealth in PvP is Paralyzing Strike. It's useful in both one-on-one situations and in zerg situations. Use the stun as a spell interrupt and to activate your 15% damage reduction. Follow it up with a Malicious Strike if you'd like, then you can run and add some distance. If Strafe is available, this is a great time to use it! You can add a nice amount of damage as you're opening up your distance advantage. If this initial burst takes your target down to around half health (and it can), pop your Hit and Run and Controlled Fire and burn them down with Deadeye Shot and Empowered Shot.

    Many times, especially against ranged classes, a Rogue popping out of stealth will trigger an immediate reaction to open some distance. Guess what? That's exactly what you want them to do! You have the longest range in the game and the fight favors you as the range opens up. Remember for 10 seconds after you break stealth, you are taking less damage. If you pop your Hit and Run and Controlled Fire during these 10 seconds, you can unleash some serious burst. DO NOT LISTEN TO THE FORUM QQERS. IT CAN BE DONE.

    RUNNING AND GUNNING

    The key to the whole bit is being mobile. In most cases, you should be moving. I bind On the Double to my F key, making it very easy to use frequently while moving. It's on a very short cooldown compared to other abilities of this type. I usually save Break Free for Champions, and follow it with OTD and Static Shot. Yes, you will be squishy and yes, people will be able to take you down if you allow them to stay at melee for too long. This is the fastest playing build I've used, though, and maintaining range is not difficult after some practice. Remember, a dead rogue does no damage. Your key to not dying is staying away.

    STEALTH AND YOU

    I don't know where else to add this, but it's good to know that On the Double does not break stealth. Sometimes, you just need to run like hell, and it's nice to be able to do it while staying hidden.

    Black Garden
    The best use of stealth in this build I've found in Black Garden is to get yourself well behind the enemy mob. From here, you can use a few different tactics. Look for an enemy healer or a cluster of casters. Wait until a healer starts casting a heal of some kind, and hit them with Paralyzing Strike. If you use Crossfire within 10m, you can knock back hordes of casters, interrupting their casting for the duration of the channel. Pop On the Double and run back to your team. If your team is really taking it to the other guys, you can quickly sneak around to the top near the respawn area and apply the casting time debuff to the casters standing on the high ground. By the time they know where it's coming from, you can OTD and run well out of their range.

    Codex
    A great map for permanent stealth. You can easily watch the map and call out incoming attacks to your control points. This build is also very adept and fending off 1 or 2-man capture groups at the flags. Use your knockbacks and kite liberally. Just remember that the goal is to keep them from capping the point. Every second they spend fighting you is time your team spends earning points. MAKE THE BASTARDS CHASE YOU. They will follow.

    Whitefall Steppes
    The use for stealth here is also straightforward: Get into the enemy base undetected. Use the side entrance, and let your team know what the defense looks like. Against a 1 or 2 person flag defense, it can be shockingly easy to ninja the sourcestone and use OTD to get the hell out of there before the other team knows what's happening. Make sure you have teammates somewhere outside the base that you can run to before attempting this.

    CONCLUSION

    Since this forum is filled with whiners, I can only assume that many of them will read this thread. I can already see the "LOLOL MM IS GIMP L2P" flames percolating in your tiny skulls after reading all of this. Please take your flaming elsewhere.

    This is a guide about a specific build that I enjoy using in PvP that maximizes the things that Rogues can do well. I'd encourage those of you who are looking for new builds to play or who really enjoy playing as Marksman to give this build a shot.
    Terk - Expert Marksman - Eternal IRON (Belmont)
    Eikke - Justicar (L4x) - Eternal IRON (Belmont)

    My Marksman can beat up your Pyro...
    Terk's Guide to Marksman PVP (Cloak and Arrow style)

  2. #2
    Plane Touched -DK-'s Avatar
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    Good explanation of your build sir, I really tried several times to make the Marksmen builds work. I really like the play style of on the fly firing. However, it always seems like I was doing mediocre dmg that when the target I was on usually was able to either heal through it or run away.

    I tend to stick to the group fights and wait for my Controlled Fire & Hit and Run were up so I can actually drop someone quickly.

    I'm always willing to try something new though. I'll give this one a shot see how it pans out.

  3. #3
    Ascendant nand chan's Avatar
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    Five immediate, glaring problems I see with your build:

    1. No Cleanse Soul -> You have no way of avoiding damage from mages, meaning an 8k fulminate would toast you

    2. No Anathema -> You have no way of reducing healing, meaning a cleric would **** you

    3. No Grip Like Steel -> You have no way of avoiding disarms, meaning you'd be toast against bladedancers, pyromancers and champions

    4. No Against All Odds -> Once stunned, you are dead, meaning you'd be toast against champions and pyromancers

    5. No Take Cover -> You have no way of mitigating AoE damage, meaning you'd be toast against stormcallers

    All in all, I'd say it's a fairly good offensive build but you're lacking a lot of vital defensive and/or utility talents. Furthermore, the lack of 44 marksman after patch means you won't be able to purge, further reducing your usefulness against mages and clerics.

    Some points that may interest you:

    - You get a permanent stealth from 20 points in Infiltrator. This is, of course, slower than assassin stealth, but..

    - ... On the Double can be used while stealthed without breaking it, meaning you can still stealth-sprint into position very effectively. The odds are, you'll never need to be stealthed for long enough that it + maybe shadow shift won't be enough to get you there in time.

    Some more suggestions concerning your existing build:

    1. You should consider getting the points in Hasty Departure and Improved Swift Shot. Don't underestimate the amount of speed boosts you can get from it. Odds are, you can out-run absolutely everybody even without using on the double, and with one the double you can easily outrun a mounted players.

    2. You already get a lot of armor penetration from Marksman, so consider putting the 5 points in Infiltrator into Take Cover instead.
    Last edited by nand chan; 04-30-2011 at 11:37 PM.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Unit Five's Avatar
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    I created the build as a lowly P1.

    Now I'm in the P3 range.

    I will probably make a MM/INF primary spec for PVP once I hit P4 and 1.2 comes out in order to get that juicy purge and still keep permanent stealth.

    The build does lack defense. I try to counter this by selecting my targets carefully and watching where I stand and who is around me. To be real about it, I'm not going to do a ton of damage against high AC targets even with armor penetration.

    I have max outfitter so I always have insoles and extra sticky grips to gain some increases to running speed and reductions in disarm, and I always have noise cancelling coating for the bow. My ability to be a PITA to multiple casters at once is fantastic.

    On a different note, I have a 51 NB / 10 MM / 5 INF spec with the AOE reduction in place of the armor penetration that's pretty slick... Best way to get Fell Blades + Fan Out and still have something resembling an effective build.

    Appreciate your feedback =D
    Terk - Expert Marksman - Eternal IRON (Belmont)
    Eikke - Justicar (L4x) - Eternal IRON (Belmont)

    My Marksman can beat up your Pyro...
    Terk's Guide to Marksman PVP (Cloak and Arrow style)

  5. #5
    Ascendant nand chan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unit Five View Post
    I created the build as a lowly P1.

    Now I'm in the P3 range.

    I will probably make a MM/INF primary spec for PVP once I hit P4 and 1.2 comes out in order to get that juicy purge and still keep permanent stealth.

    The build does lack defense. I try to counter this by selecting my targets carefully and watching where I stand and who is around me. To be real about it, I'm not going to do a ton of damage against high AC targets even with armor penetration.

    I have max outfitter so I always have insoles and extra sticky grips to gain some increases to running speed and reductions in disarm, and I always have noise cancelling coating for the bow. My ability to be a PITA to multiple casters at once is fantastic.

    On a different note, I have a 51 NB / 10 MM / 5 INF spec with the AOE reduction in place of the armor penetration that's pretty slick... Best way to get Fell Blades + Fan Out and still have something resembling an effective build.

    Appreciate your feedback =D
    I've actually had a lot of fun with a Ranger/Nightblade/Infiltrator build before.

    You can put up AoE fell blades and cloudy poison, in addition to harassing individual targets with crippling shot and twilight force (both slow), piercing shot, anathema (for healers), dusk to dawn as well as concussive blast (AoE interrupt + silence).

    It was awesome in black garden, you could simply cripple the entire enemy team by instantly applying heal debuffs + cast time debuffs to *everybody*, then finishing it off with an AoE finisher. Then you just cripple the healers by applying all of your single target debuffs to them, all the while not dying because of the survivability buffs from infiltrator and ranger (as well as escape artist).

    I ended up scrapping it though since it was too energy-heavy (my only AoE was trick shot), and I had no speed boosts from marksman was *not* fun whatsoever.

    I might try re-doing the build with Marksman instead of Ranger some day. (I also get an AoE armor debuff that way)

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    Rift Chaser betty's Avatar
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    Im stunned - a reasonable post - a reasonable response and a gracious acknowledgement of the response -
    whats the forums coming to - it must stop now

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by betty View Post
    Im stunned - a reasonable post - a reasonable response and a gracious acknowledgement of the response -
    whats the forums coming to - it must stop now
    As the commercial says "We're not in Azeroth anymore"

  8. #8
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    I use a MM/NB and find it's pretty effective in warfronts and pvp.

    My build is something like this, but this calculator seems different then what's on live. Either way, it's the gist of my build.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0M...ictzuogMo.xb0M

    I can kill undergeared clerics solo, I can't kill the geared ones solo but you can tell I'm giving them a hard time (and that's what assisting is for). I'll usually finish over 100k, 10 kbs and will die probably twice.

  9. #9
    Champion
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    Well wrote. Bookmarked.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    I am thinking that this:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...s.E0xomzV0zM.x

    is the ultimate port scion harassment build. You wont kill anyone, but you would piss off their casters something fierce. Especially if you had silence enchantment stones on your bow. 50% less healing, 25% longer cast times and silence sprayed around to 8 people at a time?

    Annoying...
    Last edited by KarrilDaltaya; 05-02-2011 at 07:28 AM.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarrilDaltaya View Post
    I am thinking that this:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...s.E0xomzV0zM.x

    is the ultimate port scion harassment build. You wont kill anyone, but you would piss off their casters something fierce. Especially if you had silence enchantment stones on your bow. 50% less healing, 25% longer cast times and silence sprayed around to 8 people at a time?

    Annoying...
    very close to what im using now. Tried it out Sat. and having a hoot,very annoying but i do kill people but it takes timing of cooldowns to do it.

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarrilDaltaya View Post
    I am thinking that this:

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1M...s.E0xomzV0zM.x

    is the ultimate port scion harassment build. You wont kill anyone, but you would piss off their casters something fierce. Especially if you had silence enchantment stones on your bow. 50% less healing, 25% longer cast times and silence sprayed around to 8 people at a time?

    Annoying...
    50% less healing and 25% longer cast times means you are talking about using cloudy and fell blades, nothing wrong with that. If you dont use hellfire blades I would not put 2 points in melted skin. I also wouldnt put the 2 points in enhanced weapon enchantments if you plan to do this a lot, although I wouldnt get the latter talent even if you planned on using hellfire/fell all of the time.

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