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Thread: Backstab is useless. Fix it Trion.

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Backstab is useless. Fix it Trion.

    Savage strike 30 energy cost +10% crit chance +15% damage when attacking behind target

    Backstab 30 energy cost +6% crit chance can only be used behind target

    29.2 dps daggers

    Damage on Normal dummy:

    Savage Strike = 204, crit 362

    Backstab = 210, crit 374
    Last edited by BaTDiE; 04-06-2011 at 12:50 AM.

  2. #2
    Koe
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaTDiE View Post
    Savage strike 30 energy cost +10% crit chance +15% damage when attacking behind target

    Backstab 30 energy cost +6% crit chance can only be used behind target

    29.2 dps daggers

    Damage on Normal dummy:

    Savage Strike = 204, crit 362

    Backstab = 210, crit 374

    It's stronger even without a 15% damage buff? Seems fine to me.

  3. #3
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    If you think backstab is fine doing 6 points of damage more than savage strike there is something wrong. Should be around 50% more damage to make it worthwhile clarting on trying to get behind the target.

    IMO anyway.

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    Koe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demvaril View Post
    If you think backstab is fine doing 6 points of damage more than savage strike there is something wrong. Should be around 50% more damage to make it worthwhile clarting on trying to get behind the target.

    IMO anyway.
    6 points more without a 15% buff.

    Yeah.

    No, 50% more damage is ridiculous on a spammable. Maybe if it had a CD.

  5. #5
    Shadowlander
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    The problem with backstab is always the same and have been explained in a lot of other posts.
    Backstab require 15 point in assassin plus 1 for himself and is positional.
    With all those requirements the damage difference from Savage Strike should be much more and not only 20-30 damage.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koe View Post
    6 points more without a 15% buff.

    Yeah.

    No, 50% more damage is ridiculous on a spammable. Maybe if it had a CD.
    Its not exactly spammable in pvp though - in pve yeah behind a boss for example but would at least allow rogues to put out some damage for a change.

    Maybe 50% is a bit much, 25% be more like it - SS hit 204, BS hit 254.

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    It's not good enough until people are actually inclined to use it and at the moment people don't seem inclined to use it. It doesn't yield a big enough return for the investment and effort required to obtain and use it... Until it does it's reasonable to regard it as something that needs fixed.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Vandrin's Avatar
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    #show savage strike
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast backstab
    cast savage strike

    seems pretty easy to me, macro will spam backstab if I'm behind and will use savage strike when im not, makes it perfect for pvp.

    just a l2p issue. Its not a big dmg increase but to say its useless is like saying your better off using 5x caltrop charge over 5x blast charge for pure damage. backstab does more damage than savage strike so why is it not worth it? Seems to me like you want to sit there and only press 1 button and win at everything. Sorry but if you do want only 1 button rogue isn't for you and neither are MMO's.

    Also if your hell-bent over 1 spec point your an idiot. If your specing up assassin for its damage then your better off going higher in it and unless you think enduring brew or something is better than backstab you would pick it up and use it. If your going up assassin for its utility the only thing you really should get ability-wise is puncture for the combo point generation. Nightblade you will use primal strike because you (should) have the primal death upgrade for it. if your going up BD you will use keen strike so you can use quick strike and precision strike. Rift stalker I'm not even going to bother because if your using it as your main tree and trying to DPS effectively with it i will sit there laughing as you tickle mages and then come to the forums crying the tank spec cant dps.
    Last edited by Vandrin; 04-06-2011 at 01:59 AM.

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    Rift Disciple entropyboy's Avatar
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    Backstab is not useless.

    1) Backstab gets an additional +50% from AP, meaning it will scale better with higher AP.
    2) Advanced Flanking gives a massive +50% to crit to your stealth openers, the Backstab crit is a bonus .
    3) all three tier 1 talents are awesome in their own ways, but not everyone will have the spare points to spend over 5 in the first tier.
    4) not every build is going to have every talent you mention.
    5) even in PvP it is not that hard to find an exposed back.
    6) Backstab will do more consistent damage if you are unlucky with your crit rolls.

    but i am all for a forced positional attack being stronger/buffed, i just don't think it is 'useless' now.
    Last edited by entropyboy; 04-06-2011 at 02:08 AM.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Daex's Avatar
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    Easiest fix would be that improved Savage Strike and Double Cross would affect Backstab too.
    Dont forget to check out my poems/lyrics: Saboteur Poem / Saboteur Lyrics.
    Ps. English is not my native language.

  11. #11
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    Backstab is useless.

    Doesn't matter if it scales better or not with AP, PvP focuses on DEX not on STR.

    I don't want an I win button, but a useful ability if you invest half your soul in it.

    Savage strike has +4% crit than BS, anytimer and +15% when behind target, backstab does 6 more damage per hit, at best. At level 50, when your normal target has 5500 hp... makes no difference. +4% crit does make a difference.
    Last edited by BaTDiE; 04-06-2011 at 12:41 PM.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Shortkut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaTDiE View Post
    Savage strike 30 energy cost +10% crit chance +15% damage when attacking behind target

    Backstab 30 energy cost +6% crit chance can only be used behind target

    29.2 dps daggers

    Damage on Normal dummy:

    Savage Strike = 204, crit 362

    Backstab = 210, crit 374
    so either dont put points in backstab and use the 15% from behind bonus with SS or dont point in 15% behind bonus and use backstab...crisis avoided........ or keep being dumb and just waste your talent points on what ever.

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaTDiE View Post
    Backstab is useless.

    Doesn't matter if it scales better or not with AP, PvP focuses on DEX not on STR.
    You get just as much AP from Dex as you do from Str.

    Additionally, Backstab requires a maximum of 3 talent points to reach its highest effectiveness, while Savage Strike requires 5 (and 3 of those talent points then impose the same facing requirement that Backstab has). For builds that are somewhat limited on talent points, Backstab is a superior option.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valadar View Post
    You get just as much AP from Dex as you do from Str.

    Additionally, Backstab requires a maximum of 3 talent points to reach its highest effectiveness, while Savage Strike requires 5 (and 3 of those talent points then impose the same facing requirement that Backstab has). For builds that are somewhat limited on talent points, Backstab is a superior option.
    Considering 3 of the 5 points you listed you need to take anyway regardless of using SS vs BS to give 15% damage to your finisher and puncture as well you can't really count these as the requirement to use SS.

    SS requires 2 points
    Backstab requires 3
    Last edited by pajama; 04-06-2011 at 01:19 PM.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajama View Post
    Considering 3 of the 5 points you listed you need to take anyway regardless of using SS vs BS to give 15% damage to your finisher and puncture as well you can't really count these as the requirement to use SS.

    SS requires 2 points
    Backstab requires 3
    Sure I can. Because those 3 points still impose the positional requirement, which was one of the points people made against Backstab. And the point was that, to get SS to its absolute best, it still requires 5 talent points, whether those talents are "required" for your other abilities or not.

    And besides, if you want to go that route, the Backstab talent is required to Backstab anyway, so you can't count that talent. This puts the tally for both abilities at 2.
    Last edited by Valadar; 04-06-2011 at 01:24 PM.

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